Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: The Dagger on April 11, 2012, 05:06:35 pm

Title: Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on April 11, 2012, 05:06:35 pm
Ok, I think this is the best I can do: Time to get back to the community!

(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Seth/pub_zps8b2e6283.png)

Download here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?bbz66j033i4ua7n
http://www.mediafire.com/?1c0wd0l428u5bq6
http://www.mediafire.com/?1pv1fw8l5w3nrg3
http://www.mediafire.com/?y2mlg3na2t6oaab (http://www.mediafire.com/?y2mlg3na2t6oaab)
Now with baked glows!

3D preview:

Hope you enjoy it!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hi everybody!

So, this is my first post. I've been lurking for some time here at HLP admiring the work this community has done.
First of all, I want to thank all the people who has contributed to push this game so far.

Secondly, I started up with Blender a while ago as a hobby. Finally, I've decided it's time to cheap in a little.
Here's my Seth WIP next to the textured MediaVPS' Seth:

(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Seth/Seth_Top1.png)

I've tried to respect the textures while taking some liberties.
This is my first serious model. The total tris count is around 8.8k but 2.5k are due to the green areas. I've made this areas over-detailed for future baking processes, but they will get simplified. The overall hull may get a similar treatment.
I would like to know whether it is better to keep the hull plates modeled or if it is better to just bake the normals and keep the model simpler.
I hope you like it.

The Dagger
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Commander Zane on April 11, 2012, 05:11:13 pm
Holy ship. :eek:
Looks awesome so far.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Dragon on April 11, 2012, 06:13:48 pm
Looks great.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Cyborg17 on April 11, 2012, 06:26:30 pm
I'm definitely impressed.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 11, 2012, 07:07:16 pm
Secondly, I started up with Blender a while ago as a hobby. Finally, I've decided it's time to cheap in a little.

Cheap?  It's not cheap.  It's quite good, actually.
Yeah, I know, he meant "chip".
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on April 11, 2012, 07:26:49 pm
Very nice. Good work! :yes: I don't have any specific feedback right now, I'll try to give the images a good once over this weekend.

Oh, actually, It might be interesting to try and incorporate the Vasudan cockpit model.. I'm sure I've got that lying around somewhere...
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on April 11, 2012, 07:57:52 pm
Looks really good, and stays very faithful to the source material.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Woolie Wool on April 11, 2012, 08:02:30 pm
And now with -trans textures he won't have to worry about dealing with the total pain in the ass that used to be setting up hierarchy for a cockpit.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: sigtau on April 11, 2012, 08:48:25 pm
(http://dribbble.com/system/users/84817/screenshots/382979/hell-yeah.jpg?1326393206)

It's so nice seeing more Vasudan love put into FSU after the huge wave of Shivan awesomeness (and the fact that we got all of the hulking lowpoly Terran ships such as the Arcadia and Colly out of the way).

Excellent work, no complaints thusfar.  I especially like the apparent "scaly" look you've achieved, it's almost perfectly in line with the original, and the artistic liberties you took are exactly how I'd imagine this ship.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Snail on April 11, 2012, 08:58:52 pm
This model is seriously awesome. I really love how you've used the retail textures to give it extra detail without playing it too safe. :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: SypheDMar on April 11, 2012, 11:07:13 pm
Fully agreed with Snail. By the way, is your glow maps off? Just want to make sure you know that the Seth has some blues in it in case it affects how you would incorporate it to your model or in case you end up texturing it.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rodo on April 11, 2012, 11:14:25 pm
That looks fantastic!
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: BritishShivans on April 12, 2012, 12:23:10 am
Dear lord it's sexy. I love the GVF Seth, and I wondering when it was going to get upgraded for the mediaVPs.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: MatthTheGeek on April 12, 2012, 12:59:51 am
Fully agreed with Snail. By the way, is your glow maps off? Just want to make sure you know that the Seth has some blues in it in case it affects how you would incorporate it to your model or in case you end up texturing it.
You realize that glows are a MVP addition, right ? If one wants to base himself on the pure retail Seth, it's his call.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Snail on April 12, 2012, 01:13:47 am
Well the retail Seth did have blue bits, but they didn't glow (obviously).
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Mongoose on April 12, 2012, 02:02:11 am
Lookin' good. :yes:

(I never noticed before how much of its general shape the Tauret owes to the back end of the Seth.)
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on April 12, 2012, 02:15:29 am
*snip*

Best first post of the year! I like how you're incorporating the texture features into the new model, it's working out really nicely (I'm especially digging those intake grids on top :) ).
- About the hull plates, I think it would be best to bake them into the normals, that should save quite on a few polies.
- Furthermore, I'd suggest making the top gun barrels a little fatter; they seem almost frail right now.
- Another nice touch would be if you make those 'flaps' on the back a separate subobject, so they can rotate on afterburner like on the MVP Horus.

Overall, nice work, and a warm...
:welcome:

You realize that glows are a MVP addition, right ? If one wants to base himself on the pure retail Seth, it's his call.

Note that the WIP is shown next to the MVP-textured model, that's not the pure retail Seth :P

(I never noticed before how much of its general shape the Tauret owes to the back end of the Seth.)

Wow, yeah, now that you mention it... Can't unsee dammit!
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: T-LoW on April 12, 2012, 04:20:42 am
Now that's what I call a debut ;)

Great work! I love the Seth and am glad to see that it get's the love it deserves.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on April 12, 2012, 06:21:33 am
- About the hull plates, I think it would be best to bake them into the normals, that should save quite on a few polies.

Being that the mesh is only 8.8k with roughly a quarter of that centralized in 4 small areas, I would say he is not hurting on his poly budget.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 12, 2012, 10:06:51 am
Considering your poly budget, I would agree that leaving the modelled panels and grooves is entirely appropriate, but understand that the visual difference between actual modelling those and normal mapping those will be present, but minimal.

Also, #1 tip: Be self sufficient. Know how to UV and texture it yourself. Way too many meshes get completed and then come to a halt because the modeller tries to get someone else to finish it for them, and that someone else seldom wants to see it completed as badly as the person who started it.

Also, use IRC and hop on irc.esper.net and join #scp-fsu. We can be very helpful :)
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Spoon on April 12, 2012, 12:24:25 pm
Faithful and a good improvement  :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 12, 2012, 05:21:47 pm
Thank you so much for your comments! I'm glad you like the model.
Now, regarding some aspects:

is your glow maps off?
Yes, the glow map is off, but the glowy areas are still modeled a little recessed.

(I never noticed before how much of its general shape the Tauret owes to the back end of the Seth.)
Wow...Can't unsee! The "belly" textures are almost identical!

- About the hull plates, I think it would be best to bake them into the normals, that should save quite on a few polies.
If possible I will try to keep those plates modeled... I like them the way they are.
But in the end if it really looks the same I may change my mind. I will have to test it.

- Furthermore, I'd suggest making the top gun barrels a little fatter; they seem almost frail right now.
Agreed and done.

- Another nice touch would be if you make those 'flaps' on the back a separate subobject, so they can rotate on afterburner like on the MVP Horus.
Agreed. Those "flaps" are actually not linked to the mesh for that reason. I've taken care so that they can do the same rotating movement without colliding with the hull. Even if I don't know how to make them actually do it ingame yet.  :D

About the cockpit, I've already test the Tauret's cockpit and it fits perfectly... I don't know who the author is but if I may, I will use it.

Regarding the UVmapping/Texturing part, I will surely UVmap it, but texturing is something I've never done... that doesn't mean I won't try.  ;7
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on April 12, 2012, 05:27:36 pm
You can use the Vasudan cockpit. I think VA made it (not sure though). Regardless, it's definitely available for this kind of use.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: SypheDMar on April 13, 2012, 12:03:03 am
Fully agreed with Snail. By the way, is your glow maps off? Just want to make sure you know that the Seth has some blues in it in case it affects how you would incorporate it to your model or in case you end up texturing it.
You realize that glows are a MVP addition, right ? If one wants to base himself on the pure retail Seth, it's his call.
As Snail said, retail has blue too. Calm down, man. I was basing my comment on the retail. I only meant to let him know in case he didn't, which he confirmed that he did in fact know and modeled in the recess to boot.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: AthlonBoy on April 13, 2012, 08:51:46 am
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8845/ilikeitx.jpg) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUyYace8318)

Oh, my. Superb.

Also, #1 tip: Be self sufficient. Know how to UV and texture it yourself. Way too many meshes get completed and then come to a halt because the modeller tries to get someone else to finish it for them, and that someone else seldom wants to see it completed as badly as the person who started it.

Yeah SCREW those people that did that thing which I totally never honestly everever did. Nope. >_> (But seriously, it's good advice.)
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 13, 2012, 04:48:41 pm
Fully agreed with Snail. By the way, is your glow maps off? Just want to make sure you know that the Seth has some blues in it in case it affects how you would incorporate it to your model or in case you end up texturing it.
You realize that glows are a MVP addition, right ? If one wants to base himself on the pure retail Seth, it's his call.
As Snail said, retail has blue too. Calm down, man. I was basing my comment on the retail. I only meant to let him know in case he didn't, which he confirmed that he did in fact know and modeled in the recess to boot.

As a matter of fact, if you play FS1 in GLIDE (Voodoo) mode, you'll notice that the blue bits do in fact glow (as do the red/white dots on other fighters).
FS1 ships have a entry in ships.tbl that specifies which colors (in RGB) on the map are not affected by lighting, letting them render at full brightness, which is basically the same as having them in a glowmap.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Dragon on April 13, 2012, 04:57:51 pm
FS2 has this too, $ND: or something like that. I don't think it works anymore.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Col. Fishguts on April 13, 2012, 05:04:43 pm
I think in retail FS2 running on a Voodoo card it should still work. When I played FS2 the first time it was in D3D mode and I was so amazed by the 1024x768 resolution that I didn't notice the missing glows until I replayed FS1 with the Voodoo2 much later.

Back on topic, I like this high-poly version of the Seth a lot... keep going.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: MatthTheGeek on April 13, 2012, 05:05:31 pm
Yeah, the $ND thing was for some old rendering mode that is definitely not supported anymore, and glow maps do that much better now anyway.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: headdie on April 13, 2012, 05:42:20 pm
yep $ND was a feature that was designed by :v: to work with the Glide rendering technology used by the old Voodoo cards, which at the time of FS1 there was very little serious competition for, Nvidia Riva was starting to get to the point of being household but there were more Voodoos than anything else at the time.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 14, 2012, 01:31:15 pm
Time for some pictures!

I've decided to keep an low-resolution model and a high resolution one. This way, I can have a lot of detail in my high resolution model and bake it into the other which has the same shape but much less polys (low resolution one is a little over 2.5k tris (whithout cockpit)). So, here's a little picture showing both of them:
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Seth/Low-High.png)

And these two are just to show blue glows in action:
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Seth/Lights_top.png)
(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Seth/Lights_bottom.png)

Next I'm going to put the cockpit and add some greeble.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on April 14, 2012, 01:38:23 pm
Baked glows are da boss.

For some reason reminds me of a batmobile.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: AthlonBoy on April 14, 2012, 03:11:25 pm
You've demonstrated extreme aptitude with modelling and artistry. Bravo.

yep $ND was a feature that was designed by :v: to work with the Glide rendering technology used by the old Voodoo cards, which at the time of FS1 there was very little serious competition for, Nvidia Riva was starting to get to the point of being household but there were more Voodoos than anything else at the time.

uuuugh oh my god flashbacks of getting glide to work on my voodoo banshee help me someone please

I had totally forgotten I'd ever owned a Banshee D:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rodo on April 14, 2012, 04:08:21 pm
2.5k, maybe you can bring some of that paneling geometry back to the model, because what's the normal polycount on a regular htl fighter model these days? I thought it was around 6k like the loki.

Oh and those glows look really good :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on April 14, 2012, 07:17:00 pm
The Medusa is around 17k. For a fighter I go for around 10k.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Hades on April 14, 2012, 09:03:56 pm
The Medusa is around 17k. For a fighter I go for around 10k.
This. You could keep all that paneling on the model and have a bunch of polies to spare, honestly.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 15, 2012, 03:51:42 am
Got it!
The high-poly one is around 11k. I'll use that directly then...
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: bkd86 on April 15, 2012, 11:21:28 am
Keep your low poly for a LOD model.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rga_Noris on April 15, 2012, 12:00:16 pm
...probably easier to remake the low-poly after you finish UVing it.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: pecenipicek on April 15, 2012, 12:20:29 pm
Regarding the UVmapping/Texturing part, I will surely UVmap it, but texturing is something I've never done... that doesn't mean I won't try.  ;7
Care to document the process you will go through? For those of us who are stuck in the old rut of "Model = perfect, UV = ok-ish, Textures = cant do it for ****" ?


btw, what is the triangulated polycount?
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Ulala on April 15, 2012, 10:28:17 pm
Coming along very nicely. :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Asteroth on April 17, 2012, 02:42:02 pm
Your version of this ship is the sex.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rampage on April 19, 2012, 06:30:42 pm
Mind blowingly nice. I wish all newcomers to HLP would act more like you.

R
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Yuzuki5749 on April 19, 2012, 06:40:59 pm
Looks great so far. :D
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 23, 2012, 03:49:43 pm
So, I've had problems with my mouse who decided to quit on me last weekend, so work was stopped for a while. It turns out that modeling and UVmapping with only a touchpad is not quite funny. This weekend I've got a new mouse and there's some progress.

I think the model is pretty much finished, so I started UVmapping. The polycount is a bit less than 11k triangles.

I just made a quick base texture just to show something. This is not even a good base texture, but I wanted to show some progress because this thread needs more pictures, so here it is:

(http://i1169.photobucket.com/albums/r503/Dagguerreotype/Seth/Fighter07.png)

I'll go back to work now...
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Scourge of Ages on April 23, 2012, 04:22:05 pm
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rodo on April 23, 2012, 04:23:23 pm
you're still on the right track.

keep going :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Droid803 on April 23, 2012, 04:23:35 pm
I must say, that is a rather impressive piece of work.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on April 23, 2012, 04:27:11 pm
Is the vasudan to scale?

Looking gorgeous.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 23, 2012, 05:07:10 pm
Wow! I just found a huge problem!
The missiles firepoints in the original model are right in the middle of my intakes!  :banghead:
I pretty much love those intakes and I would love to keep them...
So I ask the FSU team members... may I keep those intakes and move the firepoints? I could place them just alongside the intakes (yellow points) or maybe between the other firepoints (red points):

 ** Image lost to the Void **

If the firepoint position is a must, then I'll see what to do...

PS: That vasudan should be to scale as it was taken directly from the Tauret model and mine is exactly the same size than the original Seth model.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: -Norbert- on April 23, 2012, 05:11:14 pm
Do those grey spheres behind the intakes look over the intakes? If yes, they'd make nice "missile pods" in my opinion. It would also let the missiles come out pretty much from the same spot as in the original, just a bit further behind.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 23, 2012, 05:16:22 pm
That picture is from a slightly down angle. From a frontal view, those gray things are almost unnoticeable.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Trivial Psychic on April 23, 2012, 05:40:56 pm
What if you cut the height of the intakes by half, the did a step-back and then put the missile tubes in.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on April 23, 2012, 07:05:45 pm
Yeah.. I like the intakes too, but the firepoints should really stay as close to retail as possible.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Dragon on April 23, 2012, 07:33:26 pm
What if you cut the height of the intakes by half, the did a step-back and then put the missile tubes in.
What he said. Firingpoints should be as close to retail as possible, and fitting them above (or below) the intakes seems like good idea.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Ulala on April 24, 2012, 02:09:14 pm
You could also try having only 4 intakes per side instead of 5 and put the missile points in the middle.. actually it might not look right.. or it could look cool. /shrug. I'm sure you'll come up with a working solution. :) Excellent job! :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 25, 2012, 04:38:28 pm
So, I'm going out in a two weeks travel so I won't be able to work on this for the next couple of weeks.

The firepoint issue has send me back to the modelling stage. Most of my UV islands are intact, but I will have to repack the UVmap. I see it as an opportunity to correct some errors that I've noticed but that I was to lazy to fix.  :yes:
The texture I was working on will be nearly useless once I've redone the UV. Being my first texture, I wanted to show it a little before it enters oblivion. I was focusing on the front part, so here it is:

 ** Image lost to the Void **

Regarding the firepoint issue, I have to say that those intakes look big but the place they take was actually pretty small.
So I decided to replace them completely with missiles bays. And may God have mercy on my soul... :shaking:

 ** Image lost to the Void **

Those missiles bays are actually half the size of the Tauret's. So they're actually pretty small I think.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: headdie on April 25, 2012, 04:59:56 pm
Would it be worth posting the progress you made on the original so if someone wants to they can turn it into a variant for use in mods
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on April 25, 2012, 05:16:05 pm
Would it be worth posting the progress you made on the original so if someone wants to they can turn it into a variant for use in mods
Well, I don't thing a messy UV map, a halfdone texture and a model that only contains detail0 so far is worth releasing. Once I'm done with this, I will release it and it should be rather easy to only edit that small area if someone wants to.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on April 25, 2012, 06:34:47 pm
I'm not a fan of the cracked dirt look on that original texture. Otherwise, it's pretty good.

The new missile bays look good. I guess it's a loss to see those cool vents go, but these are fine too.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Cyborg17 on April 25, 2012, 07:02:44 pm
I actually like the look of the texture.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on April 25, 2012, 07:04:38 pm
Just a quick thing I forgot to mention. Be sure to set the glass to use a separate texture and be sure it uses the -trans flag. For example: black_glass-trans.dds
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Ulala on April 25, 2012, 11:53:23 pm
I liked the vents. But the missile pods work too.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Alan Bolte on April 26, 2012, 12:34:52 am
Those missiles bays are actually half the size of the Tauret's. So they're actually pretty small I think.
IIRC the EMP missile is about half as wide as the Seth is tall, so using that whole space for missile tubes was probably the best bet.  :yes2:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Dragon on April 26, 2012, 09:12:59 am
I'd say you pulled it off quite well. The missile tubes look very good in that location. Can't wait to see it finished.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Hellstryker on April 27, 2012, 02:06:30 am
For what it's worth, I like the missiles a thousand times better than the old intakes. Pity about having to redo everything else though.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on May 08, 2012, 05:34:12 pm
I've been gone, but I'm back. I think the only thing left to texture is those greeble parts but I'm not too inspired right now to do it. After that, LODs...
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Dragon on May 08, 2012, 05:46:01 pm
Looks incredible. :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: CommanderDJ on May 08, 2012, 06:22:24 pm
Looks incredible. :yes:

'nuff said.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Beskargam on May 08, 2012, 07:07:50 pm
Looks incredible. :yes:

me third!
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rodo on May 08, 2012, 08:45:53 pm
Add some dirt to it and we're ready to go!
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on May 08, 2012, 09:00:01 pm
Dirt, scorches (?), greebles. THEN we're good to go. With a very nice new asset indeed.

(Bright yellow missles in the tubes look a bit tacky, could be ****ty image quality. Looks like a 40% quality jpeg)
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on May 08, 2012, 09:02:45 pm
Dirt, scorches (?), greebles. THEN we're good to go. With a very nice new asset indeed.

(Bright yellow missles in the tubes look a bit tacky, could be ****ty image quality. Looks like a 40% quality jpeg)

 :wtf:

It already has greebles...
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on May 08, 2012, 09:08:42 pm
I think the only thing left to texture is those greeble parts but I'm not too inspired right now to do it.

Greyish panels in the back of the ship. They're flat right now, could use some normal mapped pipes and stuff.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on May 08, 2012, 09:16:13 pm
OK, well to be clear, that's not generally considered "greebles" that's just a texturing trick.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on May 09, 2012, 09:56:46 am
About the greebles, I'm not actually sure if I'm going to texture it to look like greeble or to model it. I'm modeling it, but I don't think it looks too great... I'll have to texture it to see if it fits.

And there is a little noise and smudge thing going on in the texture, but maybe the image is to low-res to show it clearly. I won't do much more scorches and dirt because I think it doesn't fit the general MediaVPS style, most ships are not that damaged and teared down.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Black Wolf on May 09, 2012, 10:46:19 am
I wouldn't worry too much about making it look a bit dirty. At the moment, I think your major problem is that you don't have enough texture contrast. Might just be that image, but to me it barely looks textured in a lot of parts - more like bare geometry in varied colours. A bit of noise, some more emphasis on the scaly patterns - these could go a long way to changing it for the better, IMO.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Dragon on May 09, 2012, 12:19:34 pm
Oh, that's a texture. I honestly thought that's it's just a painted model (they're occasionaly shown like that around here). It definitely needs more dirt and "noise".
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on May 09, 2012, 03:47:45 pm
Well, I've added some more dirt on that texture. Here's the model with AO bake and basic colors without any dirt.

** images lost to the Void **

And here's the model with several dirt layers:

** images lost to the Void **

Hope you like it...
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: flecht on May 09, 2012, 07:20:23 pm
IMHO to dirty right now.  I would consider less dirt and more grain/noise/whatever approach.
Of course de gustibus non est disputandum.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: sigtau on May 09, 2012, 07:26:14 pm
I like the dirt.  Makes it look used (as most Seths should be, by the time FS2 rolls around at least).

Keep it up. :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on May 09, 2012, 08:24:22 pm
Careful you don't go overboard with the dirt. Right now, that first prototype makes the asset look like it was lifted from Bastion because of its paint-like aesthetic.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Alan Bolte on May 09, 2012, 10:39:00 pm
IMHO to dirty right now.  I would consider less dirt and more grain/noise/whatever approach.
Of course de gustibus non est disputandum.
Agreed, I tried increasing the contrast on the image of the original texture and it was a significant improvement.

Although, I rather like how the dirt looks on the darker panels toward the front. A bit more dirt there than elsewhere also makes sense since the missiles are launched across that area.

Also, the leading edge was segmented in the original. Where you considering doing something with that, or leaving it as it looks in the dirty image?

Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Rodo on May 09, 2012, 10:46:07 pm
That last image looks better, now it only needs some well placed details coupled with good normal maps and you are ready to go.

If you are in the need for some inspiration you could check the Uly, that's one of the best textured models out there right now that resembles your current work IMO.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on May 09, 2012, 11:47:30 pm
Yes, the ulysses is very well done. I think the exposed mechanical/greeble parts will help you especially, since they look pretty good without being modeled in IIRC. But please don't leave obvious untextured parts on the model, like the ulysses does. (How the hell has it been 2-3 years since that has been noted and not fixed? Is there no UV map on those parts of the model?)
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on May 10, 2012, 01:26:32 am
I appreciate your comments.

Personally, I don't like crispy new fighters but I don't like when they look as if they single-handedly fought the terrans, beat the lucifer and kept going for 50 years neither.
I will tone down the dirt. I've shown it because it's my first time texturing and I don't know if I'm doing it right.
Iin the end it's a matter of personal taste, and I like it less dirty.

Regarding that cracked pattern I had, I think it makes all that back area too continuous and hides the mesh details, so I removed it.

And thanks for recomending the Ulyses, I will be loking into that.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Yuzuki5749 on May 10, 2012, 08:24:11 am
I think the dirt layer looks better when it's placed at the missle tubes and turrets.
IMO noise on the hull will be better than a dirt layer.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Hellstryker on May 11, 2012, 04:57:39 pm
I'll third the need for some noise/grain on it.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on May 12, 2012, 05:42:29 pm
Hi,
here's a little progress update:
I found out that I'm useless at greeble modeling. So I stole a piece of texture from the Hatshepsut to fill those grayish parts. :nono:
To break that flat surface feeling in the back I add some noise to the normal map on the scales.
So the current status is:
DONE:
- textures
- detail0, detail1, detail2
- shield mesh
TODO:
- debris (still!)
- placing subsystems, firing points, etc.
- make those flaps turn on AB.

Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: MatthTheGeek on May 12, 2012, 05:46:03 pm
Holy sh-

Although I must say, I am not a fan of the glows. Well, I am, but not of the color. I remember the MVP glows on the older one were much darker.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Nyctaeus on May 12, 2012, 05:48:03 pm
This is GOOD artistic invention :yes:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Kolgena on May 12, 2012, 05:54:29 pm
Holy crap that looks good.

I have to agree on the glows. They're too strong right now and are overpowering.

How are you planning the flaps to turn on AB? I'm not sure what axis of rotation could actually look good...
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on May 12, 2012, 06:25:06 pm
Now that I focus on the glow, I think you're right. I've tone down the glow reflects so that the source of light is more defined.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mandobardanjusik on May 12, 2012, 06:26:58 pm
great job dagger, I hope my sekhmet turns out as well, it will be cool to have the seth escorting it
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Black Wolf on May 13, 2012, 07:20:20 am
Lit like that with the normal mapping and everything it looks gorgeous. I like the toned down glows too, but might it be possibly to change the hue a bit? It's currently a bit on the cyan side of the gradient - it would probably look better as a deeper blue, more of a slightly darker azure. Also, could the groove between the two missile launchers be a somewhat darker shade? These two chamges would bring it more in line with [V]'s model I think.

Overall though, a great looking ship, and a really good upgrade. :nod:
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Dragon on May 13, 2012, 07:23:28 am
Looks awesome. It could indeed use a deeper blue for the glows, but otherwise, it's pretty much perfect.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: sigtau on May 13, 2012, 10:36:05 am
The toned down glows are exactly what they need to be.  Well done.  Can't wait to see this in-game.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Ulala on May 13, 2012, 12:30:18 pm
:yes::yes::yes: Very well done.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: General Battuta on May 13, 2012, 02:18:00 pm
owns bones
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: Hellstryker on May 14, 2012, 09:41:22 pm
That flat area in the top/back looks woefully under detailed. Texture could use some tweaking there. Also the glows should be pure blue. 0, 0, 255. Is how they are on the Thoth and Horus.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on May 14, 2012, 09:45:04 pm
FYI, using PCS2 you can import the subsystem and firing point data from the retail Seth.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: The Dagger on May 15, 2012, 02:16:55 pm
@Hellstricker:
The top/back is as it always was. I don't find it bad, I think it makes a nice contrast with the scaled parts.
About the glows, I've tried to use pure blue, but I don't like how the baked glow looks over the maroon areas. When you have the diffuse + shine + glow it looks a little purple, and I don't like it. So, finally, I've taken the hue that I think does the better overall job: 0,77,212. Of course, that's a matter of personal taste.

@mjn.mixael:
I'm placing them manually to learn the process and because I guess some points may have move (I tried to keep the mesh very close to the original but I don't think it's an exact copy).
I have a question although, I've found that it's possible to set a convergence point for missile and gun banks. Is there a recommended convergence distance? If not, I think I'll make them all converge at 500 m in front of the eyepoint.
Title: Re: PVF Seth
Post by: mjn.mixael on May 15, 2012, 02:43:06 pm
If the retail ship didn't have convergence, then the htl version shouldn't either
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASE]
Post by: The Dagger on May 19, 2012, 01:05:39 pm
Ok, I think this is the best I can do: Time to get back to the community!

I think the model is finished, but it needs proper testing, so I've passed the ball to the FSU team.
For those of you who just won't wait to have the fully tested and glitch corrected version from the FSU, you can get my final version here:

http://www.mediafire.com/?bbz66j033i4ua7n

Disclaimer:
I haven't test the model extensively. I tryed to keep it as close to the original as possible but that's all.

Download includes:
- model
- all the textures needed
- table for a Horus-style flap move on afterburner

Hope you enjoy it!
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: Kolgena on May 19, 2012, 01:32:01 pm
It looks fantastic in-game.

Couple points:

Rotating flaps look quite fugly to me. Sorry. It'd be better if it only rotated 30-45 degrees instead of the full 90. They look like airbrakes deploying right now.

Glass shine map needs to be toned way down, and the environment map toned way up to be in line with glass on other ships. Disregard this. It's the normal map contributing way too much shine with my specific lighting settings. However, I did like the look (on my local end) when I made RGB and A of the trans-shine white to emphasize environment/cube mapping on the glass.

LOD2, 3, and debris don't have specular maps. It'd be nice if at least the debris did.

0 other complaints. Maybe use 3 thruster points instead of 2 to better fit the engine exhaust port? That's more of a minor naggle though.

Congratulations on releasing such a fantastic upgrade.
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: mjn.mixael on May 19, 2012, 01:39:32 pm
Lods 2 and 3 never use shine maps. Ever.
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on May 19, 2012, 02:08:04 pm

Just as a comment, all lods share the same textures.

I agree with flaps rotation looking a little over the top. These flaps are bigger than the Horus' so, the effect is more noticeable. However, I think it only makes sense to have it at 90 degrees. If not, it would point slightly upward or downward, making us think it's making the ship go up or down.

In any case, the real reason behind it all is that the flaps position is used to shield the rest of the ship from the over-energetic particles spewed by the engines at afterburner power. And they won't slow the ships 'cause there's no friction in space. And since the AB is stronger on the Seth, so are his flaps.  :nervous:

Finally, I used two engine exhaust 'cause that's what's on retail. Maybe I should change that...
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: Kolgena on May 19, 2012, 02:14:34 pm
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/6674/sethk.jpg)

Dat fighter.

(Took the liberty of modifying the glass specular/environment mapping, and the flaps only rotating to 30 degrees. Hope you don't mind :nervous:)

Edit: I just realized: When the flaps rotate to 90, I didn't check if they would protrude from the shield mesh. Also, they would drastically increase forward/backward target profile, wouldn't they?
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on May 19, 2012, 02:27:54 pm
Wow, that looks shiny!

Ok, here's what I'll do. I'll change the angle to 30 degrees. And I'll make the shield cover it when it turns (I checked and it doesn't right now, good catch!)
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: mandobardanjusik on May 19, 2012, 02:36:08 pm
hmm I may need to ask you guys for texturing help on the sekhmet, if I ever manage to finish it, I am no where near that good, you did an amazing job dagger
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on May 19, 2012, 02:52:01 pm
Ok, version 2 is out, with flaps angle reduced and shields actually protecting them:

http://www.mediafire.com/?1c0wd0l428u5bq6

@mandobardanjusik:
I'd like to help you. Once your model is finished you can send it to me and I see what I can do. But remember this was my first texture. There are better texturers out there.
And a little advice: no one will want your model finished as bad as you, so try doing it yourself. Texturing takes patience but I ended up enjoying it. You just have to keep going.
Title: Re: PVF Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: mandobardanjusik on May 19, 2012, 02:57:40 pm
well say that to my 20 other attempted textures :(, but I will take you up gladly, and also I am still trying to figure out the design on the sekhmet, its much more... abstract than yours
Title: Re: Seth [RELEASED]
Post by: The Dagger on October 05, 2013, 04:14:23 pm
Bumping for update: now with baked pilot and glowmaps.
Download from Mediafire (http://www.mediafire.com/download/y2mlg3na2t6oaab/Seth.rar)