Author Topic: Physically-Based Rendering Builds  (Read 18151 times)

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Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Oh it looks like he doesn't have a build with the latest PBR commits. Turning post processing off is going to look funky in the build that's currently present, never mind.

 

Offline Talon 1024

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Here's a screenshot, without post-processing, from a newer PBR build (commit 3849be2).

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Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
So, is the picture still unsatisfactory? Do you still have problems with the render?

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
The problem is the PBR renderer itself. It doesn't work well with post-processing, even if it's optimized.
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Offline The E

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
The problem is the PBR renderer itself. It doesn't work well with post-processing, even if it's optimized.

This post is gibberish. It does not contain anything remotely resembling a description of a bug. If you have found an issue not already mentioned in this thread, describe it in detail, with screenshots and steps to reproduce the issue at the very least.

Bryan, I want this to be absolutely clear. Posts like the one above accomplish exactly two things: They make people like me (who you expect to fix your problems) ignore you, and they make your repeated statements of coding or modding ability questionable. What they do not do is lead to your issues getting fixed.
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Offline fightermedic

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
The thing is, specular maps created for use with the old lighting model don't look very good in PBR builds.

this statement, i dare say, holds truth to it
with the hippocrates i ran into that problem somewhat, i provided screenshots here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=57547.msg1808736#msg1808736
the first 4 screens are with non-pbr textures, and show how some of the default values responsible for reflection are just too high in my opinion - especially on supposed to be dark, barely reflective surfaces! - just have a look and judge yourself
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 08:46:06 am by fightermedic »
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Offline The E

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Can you redo that test with the current builds?
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Offline fightermedic

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Can you redo that test with the current builds?
i will, as soon as i am at home, but if memory doesn't delude me, nothing has changed in that regard
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>>Ships created by me<<
Campaigns revised/voice-acted by me:
Lightning Marshal 1-4, The Regulus Campaign, Operation: Savior, Operation: Crucible, Titan Rebellion, Fall of Epsilon Pegasi 1.1Aftermath 2.1,
Pandora's Box 2.2, Deep Blood

Other Campaigns I have participated in:
The Antagonist, Warzone, Phantoms & Echo-Gate

All the stuff I release is free to use or change in any way for everybody who likes to do so; take whatever you need

 

Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
That post isn't very helpful. I need specific specular color and gloss values you used in those maps in order to isolate which parameter you have problems with, especially if it's a discrepancy between how textures are being read vs how the materials overrides are working. Saying that you used low specular and gloss and saying it looks to bright compared to the materials overrides set to zero doesn't give me enough actionable feedback. A better comparison would have been to take the spec color and gloss value of the texel and compare it using the exact same numbers in the overrides.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2016, 12:23:01 pm by Swifty »

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
That post isn't very helpful. I need specific specular color and gloss values you used in those maps in order to isolate which parameter you have problems with, especially if it's a discrepancy between how textures are being read vs how the materials overrides are working. Saying that you used low specular and gloss and saying it looks to bright compared to the materials overrides set to zero doesn't give me enough actionable feedback. A better comparison would have been to take the spec color and gloss value of the texel and compare it using the exact same numbers in the overrides.
Specific specular color and gloss values can be related to specific model.

And, as for EXT_FRAMEBUFFER_OBJECT, you should check this.
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Offline The E

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds

And, as for EXT_FRAMEBUFFER_OBJECT, you should check this.

Why? What for?
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Offline fightermedic

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
finally got around to test it with the newest build, everything is still exactly as on my screenshots

@swifty
i think it might be possible you misunderstood my post entierly
in no word did i mention anything about discrepancis between the material override and texture values, in fact those work quite fine!
the problems that I tried to SHOW using appropriate override settings are those:

- on NON-pbr textures, the default value you use for gloss (since non pbr textures don't have gloss values, this IS what you are doing, right? ) is way too high... I think non-pbr textures should be much more matt by default
as they are currently those textures are a lot more shiny than in the pre pbr builds

- on PBR textures, if you have a completely matt material ( 0 gloss ) and a completely black diffuse and spec texture, there is still a lot of reflection going on - it is absolutely imposible right now to make a really dark and non reflective surface
>>Fully functional cockpits for Freespace<<
>>Ships created by me<<
Campaigns revised/voice-acted by me:
Lightning Marshal 1-4, The Regulus Campaign, Operation: Savior, Operation: Crucible, Titan Rebellion, Fall of Epsilon Pegasi 1.1Aftermath 2.1,
Pandora's Box 2.2, Deep Blood

Other Campaigns I have participated in:
The Antagonist, Warzone, Phantoms & Echo-Gate

All the stuff I release is free to use or change in any way for everybody who likes to do so; take whatever you need

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
The minimum is, IIRC, capped at 0.02, which should be pretty darn hard to see; can you take a screenshot of that problem?
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<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
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<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
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<MageKing17> more than two hours
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Offline fightermedic

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
i did, they are linked a few posts above
>>Fully functional cockpits for Freespace<<
>>Ships created by me<<
Campaigns revised/voice-acted by me:
Lightning Marshal 1-4, The Regulus Campaign, Operation: Savior, Operation: Crucible, Titan Rebellion, Fall of Epsilon Pegasi 1.1Aftermath 2.1,
Pandora's Box 2.2, Deep Blood

Other Campaigns I have participated in:
The Antagonist, Warzone, Phantoms & Echo-Gate

All the stuff I release is free to use or change in any way for everybody who likes to do so; take whatever you need

 

Offline DahBlount

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
- on NON-pbr textures, the default value you use for gloss (since non pbr textures don't have gloss values, this IS what you are doing, right? ) is way too high... I think non-pbr textures should be much more matt by default
as they are currently those textures are a lot more shiny than in the pre pbr builds

That's because non-PBR textures are still treated as before, the gloss comes from your ogl_spec parameter in the launcher.

- on PBR textures, if you have a completely matt material ( 0 gloss ) and a completely black diffuse and spec texture, there is still a lot of reflection going on - it is absolutely imposible right now to make a really dark and non reflective surface
This narrowed down the possible issues.

Would you mind sending me copies of your PBR texture files for the Hippocrates so I could troubleshoot them? Preferably either XCF or PSD.

Edit:
This is probably closer to what you wanted.

Yes the colors are still washing out, that isn't due to the gloss, that's the specular coloring itself that needs to be fixed.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 01:17:00 pm by DahBlount »
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

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<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
i did, they are linked a few posts above
That's not from a recent build, though; still, I'll let someone with more experience in this area try to figure it out.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline DahBlount

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
The apparent issue is that Cycles doesn't seem to account for gamma correction when generating textures, so it produces specular values that are way off. With the textures for the Hippocrates, the final colors were getting pushed way towards black, making the entire surface matte.
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

<Axem> jad2.23 will just be cat videos

<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
<Axem> maybe
<Axem> it can be whatever you like!
<DahBlount> A Chocolate Sundae?
<Axem> sure

My models: GTF Gilgamesh - GTD Nuadha [Redesigning] - Ningirama [WIP] - GTG Zephyrus

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds

And, as for EXT_FRAMEBUFFER_OBJECT, you should check this.

Why? What for?
To answer this question, for handling frames rendered. I think it's more or less resolved by Swifty.
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Offline The E

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
To answer this question, for handling frames rendered. I think it's more or less resolved by Swifty.

Bryan, in threads like this one, we are looking for three things. One, ideas to make a feature better. Two, bug reports for issues found with a feature. Three, help and advice on how to fix bugs. In all cases, what we need is a certain level of elaboration on the poster's part. The best feedback is unambiguous and complete. Yours frequently is neither. Anytime you post something, we have to spend time trying to puzzle out whether you've actually found something interesting or whether you've once more demonstrated your utter lack of understanding of the problem. This is time we'd rather not spend, and as a result, you will be ignored or worse.

Now, you claim to be a visionary coder in that sidebar there. So please, at least try to act like one. Right now, you come across as someone who does not know what he's talking about, has a limited capacity to understand problems or see the big picture, and is utterly incapable of communicating with other coders. That, dear Bryan, is the opposite of "visionary".
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Offline DahBlount

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
I've started to give the old GTB Medusa some PBR love.


To show how the gloss is masked:
<Axem> yet still more insightful than #hard-light

<Axem> jad2.23 will just be cat videos

<DahBlount> So
<DahBlount> JAD2.2 is like that
<Axem> maybe
<Axem> it can be whatever you like!
<DahBlount> A Chocolate Sundae?
<Axem> sure

My models: GTF Gilgamesh - GTD Nuadha [Redesigning] - Ningirama [WIP] - GTG Zephyrus