Author Topic: FS2Open Oculus VR Test  (Read 6570 times)

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Offline Rijaak

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Has anyone thought of using a directx 9 wrapper to integrate with vorpx? Seems like it might be the easiest way to do this. I'm totally down to put in some hours if someone more experienced can help cover my weaknesses programing wise. Message me if interested. Let's get this done!

 

Offline The E

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
DX9 is not a technology we are in any way interested in.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline jr2

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
FYI, FSO used to have native DX(9?) support.  It was removed due to there not being enough (any?) coders with DX experience to maintain that part of the code, and OpenGL being cross-platform (DX can be emulated with WINE, but why when you have OpenGL?).

So, probably best to go for a straight up OpenGL solution.

DX9 is not a technology we are in any way interested in.

To an outsider, that would seem a rather snobbish response.  Warranted, but there's nicer ways to say it?  I know the FSO / DX back story from being around here, and I know you (here, at least), so I know you aren't being a wanker, but others don't.  The dude just offered to bug test for you and the response could be interpreted (incorrectly) as, "DX9 is rubbish!" (And maybe it isn't desirable.  But not everyone knows that.)


Feel free to ignore this post if I misunderstood everything.  :P  Just trying to facilitate better coder - non-coder relations.  :warp:

 

Offline Rijaak

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Yeah. I've never messed around with FSOpen code (I mostly do GIS scripting or Forestry modelling coding for work), so idk if it'd work. I was just thinking how VorpX is prebuilt to render VR with DX 9 input, so it might be easier to go that route. Are you sure that's not a viable possibility? Especially if we have a previous version built with native DX9 support, it sounds like it might be simpler to adapt that. If not, I'm still down to bug test and do some simple coding. Any word on progress or how I can help?

 

Offline jr2

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Yeah. I've never messed around with FSOpen code (I mostly do GIS scripting or Forestry modelling coding for work), so idk if it'd work. I was just thinking how VorpX is prebuilt to render VR with DX 9 input, so it might be easier to go that route. Are you sure that's not a viable possibility? Especially if we have a previous version built with native DX9 support, it sounds like it might be simpler to adapt that. If not, I'm still down to bug test and do some simple coding. Any word on progress or how I can help?

The old DX code was not maintained, which was why support was dropped.  You'd have to re-implement DX support and get it bug-free on your own, and also then maintain that part of the code, as no current members can / want to do this.

Better to find another way around the problem.

 

Offline Rijaak

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Gotcha. Well, it was worth a shot. You said something about WINE. Is that something that could be used as a wrapper on current versions to feed DX9 input into VorpX? Everything I can find about it is in regards to installing DX on linux or ubuntu. If these guys are going to do the grind of trying to get native oculus support (which I'm still down to help with), I'd like to find a workaround to use in the meantime. I can't wait to play Diaspora with my oculus!

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Gotcha. Well, it was worth a shot. You said something about WINE. Is that something that could be used as a wrapper on current versions to feed DX9 input into VorpX?
:wtf: And where would you be getting this DX9 input from?
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Rijaak

  • 22
Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
FYI, FSO used to have native DX(9?) support.  It was removed due to there not being enough (any?) coders with DX experience to maintain that part of the code, and OpenGL being cross-platform (DX can be emulated with WINE, but why when you have OpenGL?).

So, probably best to go for a straight up OpenGL solution.

DX9 is not a technology we are in any way interested in.

To an outsider, that would seem a rather snobbish response.  Warranted, but there's nicer ways to say it?  I know the FSO / DX back story from being around here, and I know you (here, at least), so I know you aren't being a wanker, but others don't.  The dude just offered to bug test for you and the response could be interpreted (incorrectly) as, "DX9 is rubbish!" (And maybe it isn't desirable.  But not everyone knows that.)


Feel free to ignore this post if I misunderstood everything.  :P  Just trying to facilitate better coder - non-coder relations.  :warp:




Well, I guess that's what I was asking. "DX can be emulated with WINE" seems to imply that there's some way to use it to get DX output, but everything I can find on it says that it's used to run windows programs in a linux ( or similar) environment. Maybe I was misunderstanding what he was trying to say.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Well, I guess that's what I was asking. "DX can be emulated with WINE" seems to imply that there's some way to use it to get DX output, but everything I can find on it says that it's used to run windows programs in a linux ( or similar) environment. Maybe I was misunderstanding what he was trying to say.
You were misunderstanding; the point is that using OpenGL lets us have one renderer on every platform, without needing to use emulation like WINE.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline The E

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
And to be absolutely clear: If or when we do VR, we will do it properly by using actual standards for VR (whether it'll be through the Rift SDK or OpenVR doesn't matter at this point). I am not interested in some half-measure pseudo VR like vorpx.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline Rijaak

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Okay... Well lets get it done then. Like I said... Throw me some work.

 
Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
I will say in its defense that I've had some truly excellent experiences with Vorpx. Don't get me wrong, native support is infinitely better and always preferable, but for those games where the developers haven't done native support or the game is older, I'd much rather have at least the option of playing in VR even if it's not as good as native. I've had some truly wondrous experiences playing Fallout 3 modded with high-res textures in VR with Vorpx- easily made the Rift worth the price on its own in my opinion.

Anyway, point is, while native support would be best, I'd rather have at least Vorpx or something similar at least at first if it's easier to code, rather than nothing, which is the case now. If that's an interim step to Oculus SDK or SteamVR, then that makes for better VR now through something like Vorpx (since there's none at all now) and better VR later through the Oculus/Steam route.

I've been having a truly amazing experience with House of the Dying Sun in VR. It's redefined what I think a space combat game is capable of in terms of immersion and I can't imagine anything better than getting to experience FS2 that way.

 

Offline The E

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
See, the thing is, in order to make vorpx integration happen, a developer must have a VR set. That's the biggest blocking issue here; not enough of us have them yet. Once we do, our time is better spent doing it properly; in my estimation, while the workload is higher to do it properly, I have strong opinions about work that you know is going to be obsolete even before you start it.

And, well, there's a few other things we want to do before really tackling VR. We need to refactor the renderer anyway, and since that's going to benefit all of us immediately, that has priority over new features.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 
 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Hah; if somebody wants to buy me a VR headset, I'd be happy to work on it.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 
Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Well, that's the general idea. To generate at least partial reimbursement for time and money invested in getting vr support going.  I wish we could generate funding up front to buy developers their own oculus. And that might be a possibility for the next fundraiser if there's enough interest from both backers and the coding community and this one isn't successful. However, people aren't as likely to donate for empty promises, so it's better to create a reward for product delivered and guarantee a return on investment in case nothing ever comes of it.

I've created a new thread for discussion of the fundraiser and to get started forming a team. Here's the link:

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=92173.new#new

To be clear, I plan to give all proceeds from the fundraiser to those who can produce a working product with native oculus support. Meaning that my time is entirely volunteered. I'll step up to a leadership position if noone else wants to, but I feel that someone with hands-on experience working with the programming is better suited to that role. So, I'll probably just be acting as a moderator there.

Here's the link to our kickstarter page:

(kickstarter closed)

Tell your friends!


 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2016, 08:34:28 pm by RAddison »

 
Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Hey, just returned to this Website after years of Absence just to test the oculus Version of FSO. It took me a while to get it run, but after i´ve seen it running in my CV1 i am absolutely stunned. Please make it happen. Though there are some glitchtes (e.g. 2d explosions in VR) it looks way more amazing than many games written directly for VR like Eve Valkyre.

 
Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
Which version is it that you tried?

 
Re: FS2Open Oculus VR Test
The Build on the first page of this thread. You can´t play the Mission, just watch. But it´s very nice. Can´t wait to Play Blue Planet on my CV1.

 

Offline Bryan See

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Any progress so far? I've never seen anything new for more than a month.

Anyway, it's disturbing to learn that Oculus founder Palmer Luckey gave $10,000 to the alt-right group Nimble America but denied he founded it. It's okay to disregard it, regardless of this?
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