Author Topic: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra  (Read 6253 times)

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
Why is that an issue?

I wouldn't be able to tell what was going on in the story. Who was fighting whom, why, and who was allied to whom, etc...and by extension, what am I supposed to do, why am I doing it, and who I'm doing it to? Which factions are opposing which factions, and howso? What is the Fedayeen's overarching immediate objective? It's talked about like it's supposed to be clear, and we're supposed to know the Fedayeen thoroughly by now (which we mostly do), but some of these blanks throw that into uncertainty.
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
You're postulating a problem and then explaining the opposite. The issue you face is not a lack of information on these topics. The issue is that you now know a great deal about the motivations (and ulterior motives) of all the factions in play, and you can't pick a clear horse to back.

The Fedayeen's overarching objective is handed to you on a platter. It's practically the first thing you learn about them.

 
Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
You're postulating a problem and then explaining the opposite. The issue you face is not a lack of information on these topics. The issue is that you now know a great deal about the motivations (and ulterior motives) of all the factions in play, and you can't pick a clear horse to back.

The Fedayeen's overarching objective is handed to you on a platter. It's practically the first thing you learn about them.

Yes, but their actions and words at the end of Tenebra muddle the waters. They fake Laporte's death to keep her secret from the Elders, but they say that the Elders are compromised by the Vishnans and thus can't be trusted...but they're devoting everything to the success of some massive, endgame Council project that they know nothing about. They're not against cooperating with the Vishnans, but they are so wary of and mistrustful of the Vishnans that they're wiling to fake Laporte's death so that the Vishnans don't find her from the Elders.

It's not that I can't pick a clear horse to back--that was the classic problem for WiH1. It's that I can't tell who is opposing whom, why, or in some cases *how* to a degree where I'm confused.
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
I feel like there's some obvious conclusions to draw there.

 

Offline Gray113

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
At times of confusion it is important to go back to the basics of this war:

The GTVA launched an unprovoked, vicious assult against a peacefull society that's only crime was to try to improve humanity and lead us to a better future.

The GTVA claimed that they were the only force capable of combating the shivans but after 18 months of war, despite a massive technological advantage, the war could still go either way and the GTVA has to gear up for a desperate all or nothing assult in on their enemy's strongholds in an attempt to end the war before it is too late

If the GTVA win the shivans will exterminate us all.

I'm backing the UEF  ;)

 

Offline Apollo

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
Well, in their defense the GTVA's original plan would have averted much of the bloodshed. Morian botched it horribly and got them into their current situation.
Current Project - Eos: The Coward's Blade. Coming Soon (hopefully.)

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
't would be awsummm if BP3, if made, had a Zod as the main ptotagonist, giving their own perspective to the trilogy. Very Paul Auster, but thats a good thing after all.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
I guess it would probably do no harm to say that the protagonist of BP3 is a Vasudan, yeah.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
FORUM POSTS ARE NOT CANON [...] Sorry

 In other words, I don't believe you Batts.

 
Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
Forum posts in general aren't canon, but when a team member explicitly invokes authorial privilege (especially one of the main writers) I think we can take that as canon.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
Battutal infallibility? :p
17:37:02   Quanto: I want to have sexual intercourse with every space elf in existence
17:37:11   SpardaSon21: even the males?
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[21:51] <@Droid803> I now realize
[21:51] <@Droid803> this will be SLIIIIIGHTLY awkward
[21:51] <@Droid803> as this rich psychic girl will now be tsundere for a loli.
[21:51] <@Droid803> OH WELLL.

See what you're missing in #WoD and #Fsquest?

[07:57:32] <Caiaphas> inspired by HerraTohtori i built a supermaneuverable plane in ksp
[07:57:43] <Caiaphas> i just killed my pilots with a high-g maneuver
[07:58:19] <Caiaphas> apparently people can't take 20 gees for 5 continuous seconds
[08:00:11] <Caiaphas> the plane however performed admirably, and only crashed because it no longer had any guidance systems

 

Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
It only makes sense, from a formal pov. :)

 

Offline redsniper

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
The protagonist is a vasudan because humanity will be extinct by then.

Also, pretty sure you're supposed to be confused at this point in the story. It's on purpose. It's by design.
Right now I put my trust in Laporte and the Fedayeen and that's it.
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
The protagonist is a vasudan because humanity will be extinct by then.

Also, pretty sure you're supposed to be confused at this point in the story. It's on purpose. It's by design.
Right now I put my trust in Laporte and the Fedayeen and that's it.

Right, but the kind of confusion I'm talking about is the kind that is jarring from the narrative, not (seemingly) intentional ambiguity. As in, Laporte and the Fedayeen don't seem confused, despite knowing no more than we do on the relevant subjects, so it seems reasonable that not understanding their lack of confusion is an issue.

I mean, if the Elders' secret contingency is inspired by/directed by the Vishnans, and the Fedayeen are devoting everything towards the success of that contingency, then why are the Vishnans and the Fedayeen (/Laporte, too) so at odds with each other? If they share the same goal (at least in the short-term), why are the Vishnans so adamant about hunting down and exterminating an ally (Laporte)?
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
I honestly don't understand your reasoning. Some of this confusion feels like it's of your making.

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
Quote
Congratulations, Operator. We brought you into the Fedayeen to complete this mission, and you have excelled beyond all expectation.

Analyst Thorn and the CASSANDRA unit have completed their review of your experience. These are their conclusions.

It appears that the Council of Elders has been in Nagari contact with the Vishnan aliens for decades. The Elders cooperated with the Vishnans in an effort to move humanity towards enlightenment - an unknown form of cognitive and social reengineering, perhaps culminating in merger with the Vishnan subspace psyche.

The GTVA discovered the Vishnans independently, and determined that these aliens posed a threat to human survival. Their invasion of Sol appears to be, in part, an effort to purge humanity of Vishnan-influenced leadership.

We do not object to the notion of cooperation with the Vishnans. However, it appears these aliens have determined their plan has failed and ordered the Shivans to annihilate mankind.

We must therefore consider the Elders compromised and untrustworthy. The information you retrieved from the Ken entity provides the only remaining option to escape extinction.

Fourteen minutes ago, the Elders requested that we turn you over for questioning. We have reported your unfortunate death during the Nagari intrusion.

Our priority for the moment remains victory against the GTVA. We will contact you once we have determined how the Ken entity can assist us - and what price we will pay to avert this existential catastrophe.

Your skills are needed on the front line. We are working with Admiral Calder to supply you with a covert identity and a squadron command. You will return to military service, but you will always remain Fedayeen.

The things you learned about me are true, Operator. I am all of the Fedayeen. And I am grateful.

 
Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
Quote
Congratulations, Operator. We brought you into the Fedayeen to complete this mission, and you have excelled beyond all expectation.

Analyst Thorn and the CASSANDRA unit have completed their review of your experience. These are their conclusions.

It appears that the Council of Elders has been in Nagari contact with the Vishnan aliens for decades. The Elders cooperated with the Vishnans in an effort to move humanity towards enlightenment - an unknown form of cognitive and social reengineering, perhaps culminating in merger with the Vishnan subspace psyche.

The GTVA discovered the Vishnans independently, and determined that these aliens posed a threat to human survival. Their invasion of Sol appears to be, in part, an effort to purge humanity of Vishnan-influenced leadership.

We do not object to the notion of cooperation with the Vishnans. However, it appears these aliens have determined their plan has failed and ordered the Shivans to annihilate mankind.

We must therefore consider the Elders compromised and untrustworthy. The information you retrieved from the Ken entity provides the only remaining option to escape extinction.

Fourteen minutes ago, the Elders requested that we turn you over for questioning. We have reported your unfortunate death during the Nagari intrusion.

Our priority for the moment remains victory against the GTVA. We will contact you once we have determined how the Ken entity can assist us - and what price we will pay to avert this existential catastrophe.

Your skills are needed on the front line. We are working with Admiral Calder to supply you with a covert identity and a squadron command. You will return to military service, but you will always remain Fedayeen.

The things you learned about me are true, Operator. I am all of the Fedayeen. And I am grateful.

So why would the Vishnans be so persistent in *ensuring* that humanity ends up a failure rather than waiting a little longer, seeing things play out in the remote chance that things would get back on track somehow?

And if the Fedayeen's priority is victory against the GTVA, wouldn't Shambala--and the fact that nothing is known about it, save for that it's designed and run by the Council of Compromised and Untrustworthy--be more of a threat than a goal? I mean, Shambala could be a huge waste of resources and opportunities that could otherwise be used to defeat the GTVA, for all they know.

If the Vishnans are actively working against the Federation and Shambala, but the Federation/Ubuntu is what lets humanity survive the purge, how is enacting the Vishnan plan still viable, and what does it accomplish? Why prioritize it over immediate military necessities?
Delenda Est delenda est.

(Yay gratuitous Latin.)

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
Your first question is an interesting one that you should surely be considering, the second seems irrelevant, and the third is a non sequitur since I don't think it is something anyone is doing.

Generally it seems like you're mixing up the status quo at the beginning of Tenebra with the dynamic state at the end.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 01:33:04 pm by General Battuta »

  

Offline redsniper

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Re: Pronoun (and antagonist) confusion at end of Tenebra
It's not even said anywhere that the Fedayeen are trying to support Shambala anymore, right?
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

Hard Light Productions:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."