Author Topic: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens  (Read 64737 times)

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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I don't think it's fair to complain about the original film because the prequels and new film copied it.
Just because it wasn't copying itself doesn't mean it wasn't heavily derivative.
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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
all* of shakespeare's plays were derivative

*except the tempest and love's labours lost
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Offline karajorma

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
And we're all on a board based on a very heavily derivative game. Freespace 1 especially probably didn't have a single original idea in it. And yet quite a large percentage of the board still consider it to be the better game.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
What about being surprised that the Empire wasn't lying in orbit with a Star Destroyer?

Frankly this is the least-objectionable thing about that scene when we've long since established that fighter-sized ships can be capable of FTL travel. Despite Scotty's comment about a lack of scale, the lack of scale here is in the objection you're making; near-orbit space is incredibly huge, even if a Star Destroyer was in orbit that doesn't mean it's going to be right on top of anybody who exits the atmosphere. Its chances are actually well under half.

(And don't nobody say TIEs can't hyperspace , during the movie Poe's objection to leaving the system during the escape is "we need to get the droid" not "this ship can't hyperspace". The TIEs and Space LCVPs are shown operating apparently independent of a capital ship during the attack on the cantina place as well; otherwise they would have presumably had more warning about the incoming X-Wings.)
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Offline Wobble73

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
(And don't nobody say TIEs can't hyperspace , during the movie Poe's objection to leaving the system during the escape is "we need to get the droid" not "this ship can't hyperspace". The TIEs and Space LCVPs are shown operating apparently independent of a capital ship during the attack on the cantina place as well; otherwise they would have presumably had more warning about the incoming X-Wings.)

So what about the scene in ANH, where they state that the TIE was too far out to be alone just before the discover the Deathstar for the first time? ("That's no moon!")
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Offline Galemp

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
The First Order TIEs are obviously a different model; the cockpit views in the OT make it clear there's no co-pilot.
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Offline StarSlayer

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Cause that's a roughly 30 year newer model built by a military that no longer holds a overwhelming quantitative advantage? 
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Offline headdie

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
also didnt someone mention that the stolen one was a spec ops version, which given the weapons options would probably need a co-pilot to manage
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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
I'm sorry but you seem to be treating the SW franchise like it is a cultural masterpiece which it is not
Not sure what world you live in but like it or not, Star Wars is a culture icon. It is one of the most identifiable pieces of media out there and has permeated every aspect of western consumer culture.

Read the words, I said cultural Masterpiece, not cultural Icon, I chose masterpiece because as a long running SW fan I am well aware of it's iconic status which has transcended decades, it however has the plot depth of a teacup recycling the same backwater kid turns superhero plot 3 times now.

Then you chose poorly. "Masterpiece" can be an artist's greatest work, which given that Lucas had more control over a New Hope than Empire & Jedi makes sense.  Even in other connotations, it's still a film which has both inspired audiences and influenced an entire genre if not a culture.
I would also be curious what movie you actually consider a "cultural masterpiece".


What about being surprised that the Empire wasn't lying in orbit with a Star Destroyer?

Frankly this is the least-objectionable thing about that scene when we've long since established that fighter-sized ships can be capable of FTL travel. Despite Scotty's comment about a lack of scale, the lack of scale here is in the objection you're making; near-orbit space is incredibly huge, even if a Star Destroyer was in orbit that doesn't mean it's going to be right on top of anybody who exits the atmosphere. Its chances are actually well under half.

It's established that Poe and Finn escape from the ship while it was orbiting Jakku. What reason did the ship have to leave if their primary concern is the recovery of the droid? Whether TIEs are hyper-capable or not is irrelevant, what matters is what was the empire's mission if not to recover the map?
Plus if the fighters are transmitting to the Star Destroyer during the attack then they'd be able to track the ship and manoeuvre accordingly.

In New Hope the Falcon had not one but two ships on its tail almost immediately.

I don't think it's fair to complain about the original film because the prequels and new film copied it.
Just because it wasn't copying itself doesn't mean it wasn't heavily derivative.

Watch some old movies. Everything is derivative. People probably recreate the scenes of movies of their childhoods because that's the experience they have to draw upon. 
Today it's just more blatant with hard and soft reboots, Star Wars TFA being among the latter.

also didnt someone mention that the stolen one was a spec ops version, which given the weapons options would probably need a co-pilot to manage

Not in the movie.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 12:43:51 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
It's established that Poe and Finn escape from the ship while it was orbiting Jakku. What reason did the ship have to leave if their primary concern is the recovery of the droid? Whether TIEs are hyper-capable or not is irrelevant, what matters is what was the empire's mission if not to recover the map?
Plus if the fighters are transmitting to the Star Destroyer during the attack then they'd be able to track the ship and manoeuvre accordingly.

It's not established at all, actually; the ship appears to be relatively quite far from Jakku compared to the similar scenes in ANH or the shuttle infiltration in Jedi. Given Jakku's actually a nominally Republic-held planet (it was the site of the Empire's ill-fated last counterattack according to what is now canon) it's quite likely that the Star Destroyer is leery of approaching too closely, either because they're afraid of being caught by a Republic patrol or because being seen breaking treaty and causing the Republic to launch a full-scale attack while they still can would be a rather dumb thing to do considering how close the First Order is to superweaponing everything. A few TIEs and stormies are denialable. A Star Destroyer is not.

Similarly, there are any number of possible reasons, related to those above and otherwise. Star Destroyers are powerful assets; the First Order is not huge, judging from their little "our victory is imminent" speech; immobilizing one in what is technically enemy-held space does not make much sense on several levels. Even if it's not needed elsewhere, simply retreating to interstellar space 20 light-minutes out and shuttling in troops and fighters gives you a much greater margin of safety in both the physical and political sense. Without any significant force defending against your infiltrating, infiltration of small forces makes sense for this situation.

Even if it is relatively close, it's one ship. Vader's personal squadron doubtless had several ships. They could blanket space over Tatooine. If the one ship on the other side the planet during the fighter chase, then it could take them 7 minutes to get to where the Falcon reaches orbit, and that's assuming they're in a very low orbit. At higher orbits, the numbers grow quickly. Play some KSP; orbital mechanics doesn't respond to increased engine power the way it works for ground vehicles.
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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
It's established that Poe and Finn escape from the ship while it was orbiting Jakku. What reason did the ship have to leave if their primary concern is the recovery of the droid? Whether TIEs are hyper-capable or not is irrelevant, what matters is what was the empire's mission if not to recover the map?
Plus if the fighters are transmitting to the Star Destroyer during the attack then they'd be able to track the ship and manoeuvre accordingly.

It's not established at all, actually; the ship appears to be relatively quite far from Jakku compared to the similar scenes in ANH or the shuttle infiltration in Jedi. Given Jakku's actually a nominally Republic-held planet (it was the site of the Empire's ill-fated last counterattack according to what is now canon) it's quite likely that the Star Destroyer is leery of approaching too closely, either because they're afraid of being caught by a Republic patrol or because being seen breaking treaty and causing the Republic to launch a full-scale attack while they still can would be a rather dumb thing to do considering how close the First Order is to superweaponing everything. A few TIEs and stormies are denialable. A Star Destroyer is not.

Granted with JJ Abrams quality story-telling the Star Destroyer could be in another solar system, with the missiles tracking the Tie Fighter and crashing into the planet all in a few seconds. After all in Star Trek the Enterprise goes from Klingon territory to Federation territory in about three seconds, and a battle in deep space becomes a battle above in low orbit  instantly and for no reason.

As for imperial counter attacks. Don't know anything about that because it's not in the movie and have no real interest throwing good money after bad wtih some supplementary material in an effort to try to make a poor story passable.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 04:02:51 pm by Akalabeth Angel »

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
This was asked several times, but the reason Solo immediately found the Falcon was because it could be tracked as soon as it was activated, at least by our favorite smugglers. He'd been looking for the Falcon for years, He also mentioned that the First Order would probably be able to track it in the same scene.

 

Offline Klaustrophobia

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
It would have had to have been activated to get to where it was.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
This was asked several times, but the reason Solo immediately found the Falcon was because it could be tracked as soon as it was activated, at least by our favorite smugglers. He'd been looking for the Falcon for years, He also mentioned that the First Order would probably be able to track it in the same scene.

When? The only comment I remember is one about how if Han can find it on his scanners the First Order can't be far behind. There's no mention of them being able to track it, especially if they are halfway across the galaxy.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
An explanation I heard somewhere (don't remember where exactly, but it was cut from the movie, IIRC) was that Falcon, after all these years, still had the tracking beacon the Empire planted on it way back in ANH. Of course, that would cause its own set of problems, but I think that was, at one point, the intended explanation (also including why the First Order could easily follow them as well). The most likely way this could work would be that Han modified the beacon (instead of outright removing it) to be remotely activated after he found it, "just in case". He could have activated it after losing the Falcon, but was in no position to follow it (having just been robbed of his ship) and lost the signal afterwards.

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
Here is something that anyone seeing this film missed on Planetary Radio, The Planetary Society's radio show. This is from the previous Trivia Contest on Bruce Betts' What's Up segment at the end of last year.

Quote
Question from the week before:

What are the four worlds in our solar system that sand dunes have been discovered on?

Answer:

The four worlds in our solar system known to have dunes are Venus, Earth, Mars and Titan. Arrakis and Jakku are not in our solar system.
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Offline The E

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
And that is relevant because...?
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Offline Bryan See

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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
The mention "Jakku" is something that Bruce Betts has taken from Star Wars The Force Awakens, I think. He must have seen it.
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Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens

 
Re: !!SPOILERS!! Star Wars: The Force Awakens
The mention "Jakku" is something that Bruce Betts has taken from Star Wars The Force Awakens, I think. He must have seen it.

Yeah and Arrakis is taken from Frank Herbert's Dune.  He's making a joke, whoever he is.