[Akalabeth Angel]

Finally saw the movie a second time with some buddies, few things were clarified by a second viewing:

1. The D&D Monsters do actually drag off one of the chinese guys in the background of one shot, so dragging off Finn is believable.  But it's easy to miss

2. When Han goes to Lightspeed inside the Hangar, he does open the Hangar doors. The implication by the dialogue though is that he's never tried it, so don't know why he'd risk going to lighspeed inside the hangar instead of flying out first.  It still doesn't explain why they don't go to lightspeed from inside the Death Star in ANH but the implied large-mass inhibitor is a plausible explanation consistent with the films.

3. When Kylo finds Rey in the forest, they do communicate the information that they've spotted her onscreen.

4. When bypassing the Starkiller shields, Han specifically says the shields have "fractional shields" which don't stop hyper-speed objects. Implication being that Endor does not.

Though how does he know this? A line of dialogue.

Rebel guy A says "our scout's returned from so and so"

then later

Empire guy B says "we tracked the rebel scout to their base"

Bear in mind that a movie is coming out this year which deals with stealing the death star plans, and the rebels got detailed plans of this planet from just a recon ship and Finn's description.  Also in ANH they were interrogating Leia for half the movie to find the rebel base, and in TFA they found its location basically off-screen.

5. When Po and Finn are in the Tie Fighter, they're hit 3-5 times by blasters to no effect whatsoever. No mention or indication of shields.


Biggest problem is probably time and space, JJ's nemesis. When Po and Finn are hit and crashing, the Imperial guy says "dispatch a squad to the crash site" what happens to this squad? Finn wakes up unconscious. Has to walk 3-5 miles to the wreckage. Then walks 20-30 miles at a guess to the settlement. And never a sign of the imperials searching for him. What happened to the Squad? Not that in ANH they only looked for the escape pod after the search of the Blockade Runner was completed.  In TFA they want to dispatch a squad before they even crash the TIE Fighter.

Then after walking god knows how far, Finn drinks some water and is instantly 100% okay. No dehydration. No weakness. He's not even stumbling in the camp but running around. Helps Rey without thinking (he only has time to recognize what's happening) then runs from her at a sprint with no problem.

Later on, on Starkiller the base will fire in 15 minutes. When the regulator explodes, it takes out 2-3 miles of the surrounding area. How do Rey and Finn have time to get so far away? The 15 minute deadline started MUCH earlier. Before they even put the shields down. The characters just teleport around with no sense of time.

so, you're basically announcing to the world that you don't actually know what a personal attack is

This community lives or dies on ability of its members to be respectful toward each other, and for this reason, this is the foremost rule on HLP . . .  Unless a post violates the guidelines, it is freely made.  The member has a right to say it, and your right is to engage with and debate it or ignore it.  Your right is not to try to suppress it and advocate for its removal

For the love of all that is good and right in the universe, shut the **** up.

Don't worry, you got a free pass too since you violate even the current rules and yet don't get slapped with a warning for it.  In fact in defense of not giving a warning the moderator I spoke with actually justified your behaviour in acting out.

[Scotty]

Not all warnings are public knowledge, Akalabeth.  Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  But by all means, continue your crusade.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Not all warnings are public knowledge, Akalabeth.  Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  But by all means, continue your crusade.

Speaking of public knowledge, it should be known that Scotty received a warning for this post:

At the end of this discussion, everyone's answers to my criticism amounts to theories and fan fiction. You are not drawing your answers from the artwork itself but from your own experience or imagination.

This is literally the ****ing point of any form of escapist media.  I find the idea that imagination should not be be involved in an audience's experience to be utterly abhorrent to the concept of actual entertainment.  If that's what you actually think (and all signs in this thread point to that being true), then I submit that you are bad at your job.

None of what I've described in the entire last page (with the exception of rebutting Kara's points about Han) have included any mention of the original trilogy, the points therein, the characterizations therein, or referenced abilities revealed there in.  Every single thing I have said in the last page of discussion has been rooted firmly in the movie at hand, and the conclusions I draw are drawn from the movie with no influence from the rest of Star Wars.

Now put your dick back in your pants, because none of us care what you do with it or how big you wish it was.

He allegedly even tried to report himself for it.
However because there is no apparent policy with regards to how warnings are administered, the manner in which the individual was warned was different. While a moderator like Scotty will seemingly always make a public post about the individual receiving a warning, in this instance the moderator who applied the warning to Scotty did not. He mistakenly thought that the forum UI which shows up after  a warning under and individuals name was publicly displayed, while in fact it is only visible to the individual and the moderators.  An honest mistake, but a mistake not rectified with any sort of action.

However for the sake of public accountability of the moderation team I believe it is worth making it publicly known since by the moderator's own words, he had not meant to keep the matter private:

The fact that Scotty has a visible warning should already be public proof of that.

I always forget that those warning notifications are only visible to moderators.  I'll keep that in mind when considering which future actions should be publicized.

[NGTM-1R]

Hey, you know what else is usually good for warnings?

Disputing moderation.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Not all warnings are public knowledge, Akalabeth.  Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  But by all means, continue your crusade.

Incidentally, in the words of an admin:

Warnings should be publicly communicated in all cases.  You aren't being singled out here; Scotty's warning of XXXXX in the XXXX thread was also publicly announced.  XXXXX should have announced that he warned Scotty; that was an oversight on his part.  I will send him a PM to remind him.

So you either don't know your job, or you're lying.
Since you allegedly reported yourself for your bad behaviour earlier I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the former, even though the fact you conform to the rules suggests the latter.

[Scotty]

Hey, you know what else is usually good for warnings?

Backseat moderation.

Contrary to what you may want to believe, there is not a strict formula for moderation.  There is no "If X, do Y, warn Z".  The reason there is not a strict formula for moderation is that the last time we tried to implement one it resulted in the typical disruptions edging as close to the letter of the rules as they could reasonably get away with and did not actually encourage good discussion or posting.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Given the number of posts in this thread which don't contribute to the discussion, belittle the opposition, etcetera and so forth I would suggest that its an example where the lack of rules are demonstrably not beneficial.  An absence of rules only removes the burden of responsibility and accountability from the moderators, which given that they're volunteers is all well and good, but it can create a situation where actions are governed by personal feelings and relationships, not rules and responsibilities.

Perhaps this thread is the outlier and not representative of heated discussion on HLP as a whole.  Don't know, I don't frequent the political/religious/regional debates in the other threads.



As for personal warnings, not really interested. I'm more interested in equal application of moderation. The moderator for example who was allegedly PMed a reminder to post the fact that you were warned about that post would have been sent that PM a week ago. A week later, still nothing despite having been active in the interim.  Either the PM wasn't sent or the individual isn't doing what was asked of him.  Either way I see it as acceptable to communicate the fact you should have been publicly given warning. Even if my post is not delivering the warning itself. Think of it as publication of notes obtained by the access to information act.  Even redacted some names for the benefit of those involved.

[Scotty]

I'm sorry that you're annoyed that the volunteer moderation at hard hyphen light dot net, a forum dedicated to free modding efforts for a game over 15 years old, is not up to your standards.  I'm sure, given your well known clout and integral role within the community, that this will be fixed post-haste.  God forbid that you be unable to post here for a minimum of zero minutes and an absolute maximum of 15 days based on the actions of the aforementioned volunteer moderation team.

To be less tongue in cheek: deal with it.  The moderation is not here to follow your rules, or the rules you, personally, think should be enforced.

[Akalabeth Angel]

I'm sorry that you're annoyed that the volunteer moderation at hard hyphen light dot net, a forum dedicated to free modding efforts for a game over 15 years old, is not up to your standards.  I'm sure, given your well known clout and integral role within the community, that this will be fixed post-haste.  God forbid that you be unable to post here for a minimum of zero minutes and an absolute maximum of 15 days based on the actions of the aforementioned volunteer moderation team.

To be less tongue in cheek: deal with it.  The moderation is not here to follow your rules, or the rules you, personally, think should be enforced.

Are you acting as an official representative of the moderation team in this reply? Or are you just trying to get your rocks off?

Dictating policy unilaterally reinforces the idea that moderators simply do whatever they want without group consensus or agreed-upon conduct.  It becomes less a question of "does moderation meet my standards" and more a question of "are there standards at all"?

[Scotty]

Not all warnings are public knowledge, Akalabeth.  Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  But by all means, continue your crusade.

Pretend I did a find and replace on this post to change "warnings" to "moderator discussions".  We have a private board for a reason, Akalabeth.  This has already been discussed internally.  That you were not privy to it is irrelevant.

However, entertaining that idea for a moment, even if I was unilaterally dictating policy then... what?  Would you be upset that the volunteer moderation group at hard-light.net did things that way?

To be less tongue in cheek: deal with it.  The moderation is not here to follow your rules, or the rules you, personally, think should be enforced.

This post remains relevant.  The moderation staff is not required to agree with you on how to do our jobs.

[Mars]

Angel, I'm willing to take the heat for saying this because I barely post here. . .


Throughout this thread, you have been nothing but incredibly annoying. Please just stop. I don't mind difference in opinion, it's how you're voicing it - it's the tone. Take a minute before you post to think about that please, because I've been following this the whole time, and your posts, out of everyone in this thread - have consistently been mean, borderline, and petty. Now you're arguing with a mod because you don't seem to have any conception that the problem might be on your end.

EVERYONE could stand to work on communication, most especially myself. Consider it?

[StarSlayer]

This thread is getting precipitously









All problems can be solved with snubbies

[Akalabeth Angel]

Not all warnings are public knowledge, Akalabeth.  Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it didn't happen.  But by all means, continue your crusade.

Pretend I did a find and replace on this post to change "warnings" to "moderator discussions".  We have a private board for a reason, Akalabeth.  This has already been discussed internally.  That you were not privy to it is irrelevant.

I don't believe you. In fact I think you're full of it. Because if you DID have this discussion, you would have mentioned that from the get go.
You're simply arguing with me for the sake of arguing.  And yeah, "pot calling the kettle black," you've used that line before.  Your replies are only to what I've said, they're not representative of someone who's actually coming from an informed point of view because if they were, you'd be making one all encompassing post, with accurate information, not back peddling and making excuses.

Throughout this thread, you have been nothing but incredibly annoying. Please just stop. I don't mind difference in opinion, it's how you're voicing it - it's the tone. Take a minute before you post to think about that please, because I've been following this the whole time, and your posts, out of everyone in this thread - have consistently been mean, borderline, and petty. Now you're arguing with a mod because you don't seem to have any conception that the problem might be on your end.

Sorry you feel that way, but you simply don't understand my tone. It's matter of  fact, not personal, it's not mean because frankly it doesn't matter to me whose on the other end of the argument. I discuss the subject, not the person.  People remember me from this thread or another, I don't remember them because once the discussion's done it's out of sight out of mind. 

Though if something stands out to you as being particularly mean then feel free to quote it and relay it to me so I could better understand your point of view.

[Scotty]

I don't believe you. In fact I think you're full of it. Because if you DID have this discussion, you would have mentioned that from the get go.
You're simply arguing with me for the sake of arguing.  And yeah, "pot calling the kettle black," you've used that line before.  Your replies are only to what I've said, they're not representative of someone who's actually coming from an informed point of view because if they were, you'd be making one all encompassing post, with accurate information, not back peddling and making excuses.

This absolutely sounds like something we can have a meaningful discussion over.  

Since you don't seem to get it, despite this being at least the third time I've said it in this thread: mods are not obligated to adhere to what you want to see happen.  What happens behind closed doors does not concern you, never has concerned you, and will not concern you until you are invited past them.

Throughout this thread, you have been nothing but incredibly annoying. Please just stop. I don't mind difference in opinion, it's how you're voicing it - it's the tone. Take a minute before you post to think about that please, because I've been following this the whole time, and your posts, out of everyone in this thread - have consistently been mean, borderline, and petty. Now you're arguing with a mod because you don't seem to have any conception that the problem might be on your end.

Sorry you feel that way, but you simply don't understand my tone. It's matter of  fact, not personal, it's not mean because frankly it doesn't matter to me whose on the other end of the argument. I discuss the subject, not the person.  People remember me from this thread or another, I don't remember them because once the discussion's done it's out of sight out of mind. 

Though if something stands out to you as being particularly mean then feel free to quote it and relay it to me so I could better understand your point of view.

It's this attitude right here that's what's getting you in trouble, in both this thread and the others in which moderators have gotten involved.  It's not your fault, clearly, that everyone is unreasonable.  It's never your fault.  Even when I gave you that warning, and explicitly told you what you'd done wrong (after internal discussion and a consensus on the subject, which I doubt you'll believe at this point), you still argued that it wasn't wrong.

And now you're embroiled in a discussion where no fewer than four people (me, NGTM-1R, AdmiralRalwood, and Mars) who have explicitly told you within the last page that you're being a giant ass, and it's still not your fault.  Clearly.

[Akalabeth Angel]

It's this attitude right here that's what's getting you in trouble, in both this thread and the others in which moderators have gotten involved.  It's not your fault, clearly, that everyone is unreasonable.  It's never your fault.  Even when I gave you that warning, and explicitly told you what you'd done wrong (after internal discussion and a consensus on the subject, which I doubt you'll believe at this point), you still argued that it wasn't wrong.

You are a LIAR.  Here's is word for word from an Administrator (Goober5000) when I appealed to him regarding the warning you gave me.

Scotty cited that comment as his reason for giving you a warning. I disagree with it and told Scotty so, but this is the sort of thing that's a judgement call from moderator to moderator.

"Internal consensus" my ass.

You have ZERO credibility or integrity.


I now have word from Goober5000 that internal discussion is now being undertaken. I will leave it at that.

[Scotty]

Jesus Christ learn what consensus means.  Goober is not the only other voice in the discussion.  Kara and Mongoose, the other participants in that particular discussion, both agreed with me that you deserved a warning for it, so I issued one.

Quite frankly you're fortunate that I'm entirely too engaged in this particular line of discussion to issue you a warning on the spot for deliberately attacking the character of another poster (much less a moderator).

Your posting behavior is despicable, Akalabeth.

[Goober5000]

And that will be the last word on the subject for the time being.  I'm locking this thread for 12 hours to give everyone a chance to cool down.