[S-99]

My thoughts is that win10 is truly nothing special and too agressive with the roll out and spying.

Other information:
Win8 wasn't bad when you installed classic shell start menu.

Handy hint:
Don't want win10 automatically installing? Assign the passwordless administrator account a password (now it only installs when you tell it too).
How to do? open cmd as admin, then "net user Administrator /active:yes", then give it a password in control panel or something (people should be doing this in windows anyway, in b4 i don't like my computer treating me like an idiot). And also disable recommended updates since win10 and other crap is recommended.

[MP-Ryan]

Honestly, the "spying" and adware is much overblown, and there are a myriad of articles on how to eliminate all of it.  In fact, while 10 defaults all of those tracking features to on, and quick trip on initial setup through two control panel areas and to one website with switch it all off in about 5 minutes.  Done this on both my machines.  As for the tweaking, I've yet to find a feature I could tweak or adjust in XP/7 than I can't do the same in 10 (provided it exists; 10 has done a great deal of positive streamlining).

I have two machines, both of which were happily on Windows 7.  Brought them both to 10, and haven't looked back.  It really is an upgrade in many ways, and if you're eligible for the free upgrade in particular, do it before the offer expires.

[AtomicClucker]

Overblown? Unless you consider the fact that it overrides user control. You don't control the OS, Microsoft does. It's one thing to claim the NSA sponsored it like conspiracy nuts but MS got greedy and are using their platform to aggressively push crap. Win10 may look nice, but I'd happily trade it for a system that I, the user controls, and isn't at the mercy of Microsoft's servers. I consider Win10 a great step backwards because it forces us to surrender more and more of our autonomy to Microsoft.

They can push updates, other things on you and with most versions of Win10, you can't control it. Sure I sound crazy, but what I'm getting at is the ability for the user to control the flow of data and updates to their system. Win7, 8.1 and Win10 Enterprise LTSB still gives you that form of control that MS has seen fit to terminate - most users don't mind... until something breaks. If MS does something stupid, everyone can be potentially affected.

[zookeeper]

If I happen to do a system upgrade in the near future, I'm pretty sure I'll stick with 7. It has worked remarkably well for me so far, and thus going with anything else would be a gamble.

Although I suppose I'll have a low chance of getting through the gazillion windows updates to a fresh install of 7 without something breaking. Or maybe it just breaks anyway on different hardware, and I was just super lucky with my current setup. There's never a way to tell beforehand.

[MP-Ryan]

Overblown? Unless you consider the fact that it overrides user control. You don't control the OS, Microsoft does. It's one thing to claim the NSA sponsored it like conspiracy nuts but MS got greedy and are using their platform to aggressively push crap. Win10 may look nice, but I'd happily trade it for a system that I, the user controls, and isn't at the mercy of Microsoft's servers. I consider Win10 a great step backwards because it forces us to surrender more and more of our autonomy to Microsoft.

They can push updates, other things on you and with most versions of Win10, you can't control it. Sure I sound crazy, but what I'm getting at is the ability for the user to control the flow of data and updates to their system. Win7, 8.1 and Win10 Enterprise LTSB still gives you that form of control that MS has seen fit to terminate - most users don't mind... until something breaks. If MS does something stupid, everyone can be potentially affected.

I do control my system - including when and what it updates.  I actually use Windows 10 though, which apparently you don't.

It makes an abundance of sense to push security updates on everyone immediately, which is also why Apple and Android are both moving to that model.  The only reason why Enterprise environments retain the ability to delay security updates is manufacturers assume their It departments have enough sense to have additional countermeasures deployed which even most advanced home users will not.  The optional nature of security updates is one of the reasons malware in Windows environments is so common - most of the exploits are rapidly patched, but users don't bother.  The days of "optional-on" internet connections are largely behind us, and with it so should be optional security updates.

Fun additional fact:  I've been using Windows since 3.1, and I've used auto-updates as long as they've been available (with varying degrees of intrusiveness).  In that time, I've had Windows Update break a grand total of one thing:  they deployed a RAID driver that didn't work properly with my controller (that was on Windows 7).  To Microsoft's credit, they pulled the patch nearly immediately.  A quick system restore fixed it.

Non-optional security patches (as opposed to updates, which can be deferred) is definitely not a reason to stick with Windows 7.  The ONLY compelling reason not to move - for free - from 7 to 10 is if there is something configured on your current system that simply will not work in 10.  For the vast majority of home users, that isn't the case (I've personally updated two low-medium-end laptops from 2009-2010 to Windows 10, and it's considerably faster than 7 on both).  If it's a paid upgrade only for you and your system life is planned to terminate prior to the security update support of Windows 7, then by all means it's not worth paying extra for.

[S-99]

Overblown? Unless you consider the fact that it overrides user control.

Just for specificity, are you talking about uac, or overriding user control in general?

[AtomicClucker]

User control in general. I'm no idiot, but when I have to help people install WIndows10, there's 13 pages of crap during install, post-update pages, and stuff to turn it off.

I can call that pretty damn overblown. 13 pages and nitpicking and stuff, and most of its turned on by default. Understandably when I was using the preview/beta build it was for analysis I knew what I was getting into, but pushing this on the average consumer? Most people won't even bother. Sure, I assume most computer users are stupid as hell, but under no circumstances do I think Microsoft is allowed to exploit them as such. But to be blunt, I don't think users should have updates forced on them. Even if they're security - the point is we cannot trust Microsoft to deliver all the time, and it's a mistake if we allow them more control.

It's an issue of trust, but I don't blindly trust MS. Not after the **** they pulled by porting that spying crap on Win7/8.1

[Klaustrophobia]

MY final verdict is pretty much the same as AtomicClucker's.  I'm not playing into microsoft's data mining game.  "But you can turn all that off."  1)  I don't believe for a second that asking them nicely not to spy on you for profit is going to stop them.  2) Even if it does, why would I bother going through all that crap to install an OS that I'll like less than what I have anyway?  7 didn't suddenly stop working when 10 was released.  I will continue to use it until it no longer meets my needs or a TRULY better option, ALL things considered is available. 

[NGTM-1R]

MY final verdict is pretty much the same as AtomicClucker's.  I'm not playing into microsoft's data mining game.  "But you can turn all that off."  1)  I don't believe for a second that asking them nicely not to spy on you for profit is going to stop them.

They'd be morons for it not to be. The cost would be tremendous to be caught the other way. You want them to be big bad awesome conspiracy, and stupid. Can't have it both ways.

[karajorma]

I doubt they'd lie about it. What is easy to believe they will do is add some update later with some wonderful new feature which has a similar effect and has to be turned off separately. And they'll probably not have any option to turn it off when it first rolls out so that they can mine some data until enough people make a stink about it.

I can very easily believe they'd do that. It's not exactly un-Microsoft behaviour.

[AtomicClucker]

Well, Microsoft's strategy is to blunder and crash its way to "victory," and their brute force approach to Win10 is no different. They are both evil conspiracy and stupid barreling down a hill. I don't need to have it both ways, because Microsoft already succeeded.

The difference between Google, Apple, and Microsoft is that Google and Apple right of the tin tell you what you're options are. Microsoft makes lots of bluster, hides the details until people stick a fork into their tongue, then we get the finer details. And without beating the dead horse, I could harp of evil MS slurping up data, but as I said, "always on" updates are problems. Remember nVidia's fun time with bad drivers? http://techraptor.net/content/do-not-install-the-latest-nvidia-drivers

Yeah... imagine having bad drivers, updates, and such forced on you, or even coming back to discover your computer just went stupid-er than Microsoft itself. So far, the auto-updates hasn't broken things super badly, but people are still having many issues: such as bad drivers, firmware updates breaking things, and every now and then, a blank screen of death. Security updates are another concern - it's important to patch holes as they pop up, but most malware can be faulted to stupid human error - visiting shady websites, pr0n, or suffering a lapse of lucidity and downloading with checking something can dunk a system.

I will agree my rants about the data slurping was a little "gung-ho" and constitutes a separate discussion, but I'm not fine with a system that updates without my explicit consent. When push comes to shove, I might get the LTSB for Windows 10 Enterprise so I don't need to fear having a BSOD because I got updated with crappy drivers.

[Mikes]

:snickers: there was that saying about people who complain about Microsoft on the one hand because they are "spying so much"... but then happily use Google or Apple ...

[S-99]

I foresee system updates in 10 that re-enables data collection if found to be turned off

[Dragon]

Actually, it's possible to turn off automatic updates in the Pro version as well (and I mean permanently, so that it needs your explicit consent to install). It's just that it starts nagging you for them after a while, in a rather annoying manner (a fullscreen notification, essentially). There's a workaround, though, you can restrict the notification app from executing via the command prompt. Turning off automated restarts is also possible, though fairly involved (you can, with some effort, disable restarts in the scheduler and revoke system's permission to alter the setting).

While it's a bit annoying that you have to do these things at all, you only have to do them once. Spyware can also be disabled by going through the settings. Once it's configured, it's a pleasant system to use. Sure, it's the same ugly, bland "minimalist" look as Windows 8, but performance is good and it's pretty stable.

[jr2]

I switched to 10 when I bought a new notebook <Asus R510j>. The worst issue I had with the new Windows was the task bar which got locked/freezed after one update <they must have screwed something hard>. I had to solve this manually via windows PowerShell and later delete one folder manually. And I noticed recently that the efficiency of the system is dropping. I mean some programs (like Firefox, Photoshop draws damn lines with 2 sec lag)  started working very slowly. Funny part, I'm using the notebook mostly for work (GIS software for university stuff), so the hard drive is free of trash but it seems to be more a configuration issue. And I did not play with configuration much myself. I must figure this out.

But overall I did not have any other problems with 10 worth notice. Personally I would like to stick with 7 but my notebook had the 8 installed in stock. And since I hate 8 the choice to upgrade was rather obvious

There was a problem with Chrome / Firefox where you had to disable hardware acceleration on some systems if updating the graphics driver didn't fix it. 

[jr2]

Not sure if it warrants its own topic or not, but BASH is coming to Win 10:  (EDIt: Natively!)

Here is an announcement from Microsoft Build you probably didn’t see coming: Microsoft today announced that it is bringing the GNU project’s Bash shell to Windows. Bash (Bourne Again SHell) has long been a standard on OS X and many Linux distribution systems, while the default terminal for developers on Windows is Microsoft’s own PowerShell.

More importantly than bringing the shell over to Windows, developers will now be able to write their .sh Bash scripts on Windows, as well (or use Emacs to edit their code). Microsoft noted that this will work through a new Linux subsystem in Windows 10 that Microsoft worked on with Canonical.

“The native availability of a full Ubuntu environment on Windows, without virtualization or emulation, is a milestone that defies convention and a gateway to fascinatingly unfamiliar territory,” Canonical founder Mark Shuttleworth said in a statement today. “In our journey to bring free software to the widest possible audience, this is not a moment we could have predicted. Nevertheless we are delighted to stand behind Ubuntu for Windows, committed to addressing the needs of Windows developers exploring Linux in this amazing new way, and excited at the possibilities heralded by this unexpected turn of events.”

The idea here is clearly to position Windows as a better operating system for developers who want to target other platforms besides Microsoft’s own. Under its new CEO Satya Nadella, the company has quickly embraced the idea that it wants to target all developers and platforms — not just its own. While seeing Microsoft doing anything even remotely associated with a rival operating system like Linux was unthinkable only a few years ago, the company now offers support for Linux on Azure, has open sourced numerous of its technologies and even plans to bring its flagship database product SQL Server to Linux in the near future.

Bash will arrive as part of the Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer, but it’ll be available to Windows Insiders before that. And looking ahead, Microsoft says it may bring other shells to Windows over time, too.

MS released a video which should answer a lot of questions you might have:

https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2016/P488?ocid=player

[The E]

Whether it warrants a new topic or not, we already have a topic about it: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=91779.0

[jr2]

Derp....   

[CP5670]

Bumping this thread...

I upgraded to Windows 10 today, from 8.1. The upgrade process was smooth and most of my settings from 8.1 carried over automatically. It's pretty easy to disable the automatic updates and turn off the telemetry/spyware, but you do need to read some articles to know exactly what to do with the registry, disabling services and so on. Some obscure drivers I was using on 8.1 like VSTMIDI and Lightscribe still work fine. Initially it seemed very good. However, one big problem is that custom themes and theme patchers are much harder to get working, and are specific to different versions of Windows 10. I had Classic Shell and a custom dark theme in 8.1, and never used the Metro UI at all. The former works great, but I can't get any of the 10 themes I'm finding, or my old 8.1 theme, to fully work. I'm using a custom high contrast theme for now, which is easier on the eyes but is based on the Windows 98 theme system and is ugly compared to an msstyle-based modern theme. There is a "dark theme" option in the 10 control panel but it only affects the Metro-style programs.

Also, a lot of older games are broken in some way.  Most DX8 games which worked great in 8.1 have problems, with some refusing to start at all, some only running in a window, most not working with driver-level vsync (so they run at 1000+ fps, which often changes the game speed), and some having a weird glitch with mouse movements. Some of these are from GoG, so there might be hope of getting them fixed. On the flip side, the 30fps problem that affected most DX3-7 games in 8.1 has surprisingly been fixed, so several even older games actually work much better than they used to in 8.1. DX9 and up generally has no issues.

I'm surprised how different 8.1 and 10 are in terms of game compatibility. I might try a different Nvidia driver (it's the same version I had on 8.1) but don't want to spend a lot of time fixing everything. I have a separate XP install for such games (although it's a hassle to boot into), but the lack of themes is a real showstopper. If I can't get that fixed, I'm going to roll it back to 8.1.

[jr2]

Did you try running those games in compat mode?


Also,

http://www.windowsxlive.net/uxtheme-multi-patcher/

for themes

and

https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

for privacy settings