Author Topic: Not Who We Are  (Read 34227 times)

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Offline deathfun

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'SJW' apparently now means 'the entire ****ing left'.

I mean
It's not inaccurate

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Hillary Clinton is, by quite a margin, the one most scrutinized person in US politics. There have been numerous investigations that have all exonerated her.

If I recall correctly, them all exonerating her is exactly the problem people have
She shouldn't of been given a free pass, that is essentially what folks take issue with

Regardless, both of these options are entirely ****ty
I'm honestly surprised I don't see more of that rhetoric around here
Hell, I'm surprised I don't see more people mentioning the fact third options are actually a thing
"No"

 
Just a note, Putin didn't really praise Trump much (contrary to what Trump often claims). In the most referenced moment, he actually called him "flamboyant" or "colorful", but the word was mistranslated as "bright", which has different connotations. What he said was very cautious and amounted to "Well, he's certainly quite a persona", which is hard to disagree with.

Actually, the American idiom would be "quite the character." And yes, that's very hard to argue with.

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Offline NGTM-1R

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Hell, I'm surprised I don't see more people mentioning the fact third options are actually a thing

Because the Libertarians are not an amateur party who had someone stage striptease at their convention and with someone even less capable of doing the job than Donald Trump. I mean, if you can't answer a question you'd know by reading my local newspaper...

Third options aren't a thing.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2016, 04:45:59 pm by NGTM-1R »
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Offline Aesaar

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Hell, I'm surprised I don't see more people mentioning the fact third options are actually a thing
Because they're not.  Any third party candidate will just end up splitting the left or right wing vote and it only benefits the opposite party.  See Theodore Roosevelt and the 1912 election.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 01:20:52 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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That's a lot of words that don't actually say much.  And what you did say is plainly historically incorrect.  Fascism, socialism, and communism are all closely related -- Mussolini was very popular on the left in the 1920s.  And, you know, "a response to" is another way of saying "an offshoot of".  Fascism was, as its proponents called it, a Third Way, a movement rooted in socialism that sought to create a workable compromise with capitalism.

No. You don't get to make up history.

Fascism was - in Italy, in Britain, in France, in Germany, and in Spain - an explicit, targeted, intentional counter to the policies of the socialist parties and Communist parties in those countries.  It had the support of far-right-wing groups including authoritarians, traditional monarchists, Nazis, racist/xenophobic paramilitary groups, and was opposed by socialists, Communists, and select conservatives in some nations (e.g. Britain, though in Britain the fascists were a direct split off of the Conservative party).  Fascist parties intentionally adopted the word socialist into their party names in order to lessen opposition as - in the cases of Germany, Italy, and Spain - they literally outlawed, suppressed, and murdered members of the various socialist parties (e.g. the SPD in 1933, Germany).  No actual historian, dictionary, or encyclopedia considers fascism to be a left-wing movement as the term was understood in that time period, nor is it considered a left-wing philosophy today.  If you do, you are objectively incorrect.

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Whatever I name is just going to be a target for you to shoot at, given that you've already set up your own target on the emails.

Ah, the "I'll say whatever I want but won't bother to back it up with facts" defense.  Bold, and taking a leaf right out of your candidate's playbook.  Unfortunately, we're not about to let you get away with it here.  You were saying about Clinton's illegal actions?

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You're mischaracterizing the response to the proposal.  Trump got Mexico to agree that both countries had a right to build a wall.  What was "never discussed" was the payment.  But that's how negotiations work: they don't happen all at once; they happen in stages.  First the wall, next the payment.

I'm not mischaracterizing it at all.  Trump's campaign said they did not discuss who would pay for a wall.  Mexico's President said he explicitly said Mexico will not (and indeed, Trump has absolutely no means to convince Mexico to do so under international law).  Given the breathtaking frequency and boldness of Trump's lies to date - indeed, its usually easier to list when he's told the truth as of late - I'm inclined to trust the word of an actual elected leader over a blowhard of a failed, dishonest businessman.


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But we know for a fact that others who have done the same things that Hillary did have not escaped punishment.

Citation required.

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I don't think Trump's shady dealings have any legs to them.  If they did, the media would be going after those

Unbelievable.  The media has been publishing reports on Trump's abysmal business record and shady dealings on a monthly if not weekly basis.  His base - as evidenced by your own reactions - doesn't care.

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Trump wants to secure his place in history.  If he succeeds in Making America Great Again, he will certainly deserve that place.  If he walks back his promises, the backlash will be swift and severe.  I'm sure he's not going to do that.

Wow.  Do you know what this "Making America Great Again" nonsense is?  Recollection bias.  False memory.  "Things were better in MY day" bull****.  The United States of America is already a great country.  It has its problems, and its weaknesses, but nothing Trump has said will actually make it better for average people, and in point of fact it will make it much worse.

By the way, I'm still waiting to hear what provisions of NAFTA have been bad for the United States.
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Offline WeatherOp

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I'm really counting on Bad Lip Reading to make some gems from the debates between these two. Only good thing to come out of this election.
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And, you know, "a response to" is another way of saying "an offshoot of".
I've got a rather massive problem with that statement, would you kindly clarify what it means ?

Because the I think "a response to" tends to equate "made to oppose", while "an offshoot of" tends to equate "a descendant/another form of".

Like, trumpism is (in part) a response to SJWs = trumpism is an offshoot of SJWs. That seems rather contradictory.

 

Offline The E

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Quote
Hillary Clinton is, by quite a margin, the one most scrutinized person in US politics. There have been numerous investigations that have all exonerated her.

If I recall correctly, them all exonerating her is exactly the problem people have
She shouldn't of been given a free pass, that is essentially what folks take issue with

Right, yes, she should have been convicted of her crimes like that fellow who did pretty much the same thing. You know, her predecessor? Colin Powell?

Yeah, the hearings and committees and public airing of dirty laundry were quite the bloodbath back then. I mean, it was so unbelievably vicious, everyone sort of started to pretend it never happened.

No, I'm not saying that just because Powell did something, Hillary Clinton should be allowed to make the same mistakes, but where exactly was the public cry for Powells' head over this?

There's this narrative going around that Hillary Clinton must be suspect and dishonest because she's investigated all the time, and that she must run an extensive conspiracy to keep all those investigations from ever returning a guilty verdict. Noone ever seems to stop for a minute to ask why, if she is this powerful, she is ever investigated in the first place.

Meanwhile, Trump gets applause for not being politically correct, while at the same time Clinton gets criticized for the same thing when she makes disparaging statements about Trump's supporters. There's huge amounts of double standards going around here, I think.
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'SJW' apparently now means 'the entire ****ing left'.

I mean
It's not inaccurate

It's really one of those definitions that says more about the person making the definition rather than the person being defined.

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Offline deathfun

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Quote
Meanwhile, Trump gets applause for not being politically correct, while at the same time Clinton gets criticized for the same thing when she makes disparaging statements about Trump's supporters. There's huge amounts of double standards going around here, I think.

When you find yourself always going "Yeah, but this other guy is worse" you've seriously got to ask yourself what the hell went wrong with the Presidential choices

Neither of these people should be President

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There's this narrative going around that Hillary Clinton must be suspect and dishonest because she's investigated all the time

I don't recall seeing the narrative as such
I recall it being as these investigations actually pulling **** out of the woodwork, and then the decisions made in regards to this came to nothing

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No, I'm not saying that just because Powell did something, Hillary Clinton should be allowed to make the same mistakes, but where exactly was the public cry for Powells' head over this?

Powell isn't becoming President, that's the main difference. Then again, what the public gets hissy over these days is largely weird and disproportionate anyhow so using that as a baseline is not exactly the best idea regardless
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 11:39:07 am by deathfun »
"No"

 
Please give some examples of **** pulled out of the woodwork.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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When you find yourself always going "Yeah, but this other guy is worse" you've

Welcome to elections since the beginning?
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Offline Mika

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Just one question: why do you think Trump has any chance of winning this race? Republicans themselves are asking whether Trump is even trying to be a serious contender.

As far as I'm aware, Trump's already pretty much lost the game. Hillary is currently advertising in Arizona, which means she thinks she'll have a shot on winning the state. Arizona!

Trump needs to win the four contested states, and he isn't doing particularly well in any of them as far as I'm aware. All of them are polling Clinton ahead. The only possibilities to reverse the tables are the debates, but I wouldn't count on Trump winning Clinton there.

We are likely looking at democrats winning the House, Supreme court and the presidency. Boggles the mind why Republicans allowed Trump go as far, any other candidate would have fared better against Hillary. Now they are likely going to lose all that, which is probably for the better.

If this is about the Clinton / Trump game being at 50 / 50, that's likely because tight race will sell news better. CNN's recent poll was not reproducible.
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 
 

Offline Mika

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Well, this certainly is interesting. Trump has been blasting US foreign policy in Russian television network interview.

While US foreign policy has been quite bad for the last 20 years, how does blasting it in a foreign media interview help? Or get rid of the smell of Russian money flowing to the US presidential elections?
Relaxed movement is always more effective than forced movement.

 

Offline Dragon

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Link doesn't work for me. But that looks like an amateur mistake. I suppose Trump says what he thinks which is good in principle, but sometimes it's wise to say nothing instead. Unfortunately, the art of knowing when to speak and when not to is lost on him. He compensates by thinking different things, per the needs of whoever he's currently talking to. :) Well, either that, or it's just another bald-faced lie designed to score him points, this time with the Russians.

 

Offline qwadtep

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Please give some examples of **** pulled out of the woodwork.
Let's look at the most recent example: Hillary Clinton runs her own email server(s). Investigation turns up that emails contained within were, in fact, classified, some at an extremely high level. Investigation turns up that said server's security was so primitive that determining whether any foreign actors had gained access was impossible. Investigation proves that Hillary lied under oath to Congress about the presence of classified information (perjury). Investigation turns up that emails were deleted while under a subpoena (obstruction of justice). Investigation turns up that she was grossly negligent with regard to state secrets (mishandling of public information, espionage if done deliberately to deliver it to foreign governments).

And the conclusion? She shouldn't be indicted because she's a poor old woman who didn't know it was illegal. Commence string of profanities.

Every investigation proceeds the same way, and every time, somebody pulls the plug before it can be brought before a jury. If people like you would stop plugging their ears each time it happens, maybe we wouldn't be stuck in this godawful situation.