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General FreeSpace => FreeSpace Discussion => Topic started by: Bonehead on June 06, 2010, 12:44:50 pm

Title: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Bonehead on June 06, 2010, 12:44:50 pm
Like the title says.

Also, what is the organization of fleets?  I take it every fleet is led by one destroyer, and contains severals corvettes and cruisers?
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: General Battuta on June 06, 2010, 12:46:28 pm
Anywhere from two to six ships in a wing (four is standard). 'Love the Treason...' seems to show a full squadron in action and it's more than twelve.

As for B, we don't really know.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Aardwolf on June 06, 2010, 01:44:13 pm
It's apparently backwards from what it is IRL (where a wing is multiple squadrons, a squadron is maybe 12(?) fighters, and what FS calls wings is a "flight")

Or so I was told when I assumed FS actually got that right.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: -Norbert- on June 06, 2010, 01:53:20 pm
Off the top of my head I think I remember 3 wings forming a squadron, but I'm not sure. Just watch the Colossus introduction cutscene and you can see it in the upper left corner of the screen when they talk about the fighter capacity.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Aardwolf on June 06, 2010, 01:55:01 pm
That just tells us they use icons that look like the Triforce  :lol:
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Snail on June 06, 2010, 02:00:34 pm
Off the top of my head I think I remember 3 wings forming a squadron, but I'm not sure. Just watch the Colossus introduction cutscene and you can see it in the upper left corner of the screen when they talk about the fighter capacity.
Yeah. 3 wings a squadron. 4 ships a wing.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: General Battuta on June 06, 2010, 02:03:15 pm
Off the top of my head I think I remember 3 wings forming a squadron, but I'm not sure. Just watch the Colossus introduction cutscene and you can see it in the upper left corner of the screen when they talk about the fighter capacity.
Yeah. 3 wings a squadron. 4 ships a wing.

But, but, what about 'Love the Treason...'?
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Droid803 on June 06, 2010, 02:07:25 pm
That may be an extra-large squadron for a very specific mission?
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Snail on June 06, 2010, 02:11:23 pm
They were guarding something that Bosch himself thought was extremely important. They'd probably have deployed more than the normal number of d00ds. The 185th as an NTF squadron probably doesn't follow GTVA organizational structures anyway.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: General Battuta on June 06, 2010, 02:13:05 pm
But, but, what about 'Mystery of the Trinity'?

All those wings were from the same squadron, weren't they? Kappa Wing certainly was.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Snail on June 06, 2010, 02:14:12 pm
But, but, what about 'Mystery of the Trinity'?

All those wings were from the same squadron, weren't they? Kappa Wing certainly was.
Hey man I'm just reading what the Colossus cutscene says!
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: General Battuta on June 06, 2010, 02:15:51 pm
IT'S A RETCON  :mad:
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: lostllama on June 06, 2010, 03:30:02 pm
Perhaps in those missions, they had to bring in reserve craft and pilots? In the case of 'Love the Treason...', in order to provide extra protection for the Sunder, and in the case of 'Mystery of the Trinity', in order to search as wide an area as possible?

It seems sensible to have another 12 (or however many it's supposed to be) pilots and craft kept in reserve, and maybe operate them in rotation.

On another note, some squadrons fly more than one fighter or bomber class, so those units would probably be bigger than other squadrons that only fly a single class in terms of numbers of craft. I don't know if they'd have enough pilots to field both classes all at once though. FS doesn't provide many details to go on.

what FS calls wings is a "flight")

Yeah, they use that most of the time. I recall that in 'Mystery of the Trinity', Command says "All flights report in" at one point, but for the rest of game "wings" is used.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Bonehead on June 06, 2010, 03:40:38 pm
I was actually also wondering if the "150 spacecrafct" that Aquitaine has means all fighters or just the main ones, and does not include reserves.  Since, when you are selecting your ship and have several to choose from, does that mean you're taking ships from other squadrons?  Or are those reserve craft not included in the "150 craft" mentioned?

EDIT:  I was also thinking that maybe Aquitaine has 150 craft total, but they are not all strictly assigned to a squadron.  For example, there might be 30 Myrmidons on board, but only 8 are assigned to the Hammerheads, and the rest is for everyone else, with elite squadrons like the blue lions having priority selection.  I'm wondering how this works IRL on carriers and such.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: lostllama on June 06, 2010, 04:01:57 pm
When choosing alternative ships, it's possible that they belong to other squadrons. But I'd imagine that it would be awkward for the technicians having to spray on a different squadron crest each time a pilot from a different unit requests another unit's ship.

As for the Aquitaine's compliment of "150 combat spacecraft" (Admiral Petrarch's words), the tech description actually says that the Hecate carries over 150. I'm thinking Petrarch may have meant in terms of the number of ships that are combat ready and that could be deployed at a single time. This, together with the tech description, might suggest that perhaps those 150 don't account for the (possible) reserve compliment.

Does anyone know the exact number of squadrons that were stationed on the Aquitaine (or that can be stationed on a Hecate)?
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Bonehead on June 06, 2010, 04:07:21 pm
When choosing alternative ships, it's possible that they belong to other squadrons. But I'd imagine that it would be awkward for the technicians having to spray on a different squadron crest each time a pilot from a different unit requests another unit's ship.

As for the Aquitaine's compliment of "150 combat spacecraft" (Admiral Petrarch's words), the tech description actually says that the Hecate carries over 150. I'm thinking Petrarch may have meant in terms of the number of ships that are combat ready and that could be deployed at a single time. This, together with the tech description, might suggest that perhaps those 150 don't account for the (possible) reserve compliment.

It's a possibility, but also see my edit above.

Quote
Does anyone know the exact number of squadrons that were stationed on the Aquitaine (or that can be stationed on a Hecate)?


The wiki says 12 squadrons, giving a total of 132 craft.
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Paladin327 on June 06, 2010, 04:08:00 pm
i always took "150 combat spacecraft" to mean fighters, bombers, and support ships that fly unarmed, practically undefended into the heat of the battle with a cargohold full of stuff that goes boom. in the colossus cutscene when talking about collie's massive hanger mentions 60 fighter and bomber wings. the graphic mentions 4 craft per wing, 3 wings per squadron
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: lostllama on June 06, 2010, 04:26:04 pm
EDIT:  I was also thinking that maybe Aquitaine has 150 craft total, but they are not all strictly assigned to a squadron.  For example, there might be 30 Myrmidons on board, but only 8 are assigned to the Hammerheads, and the rest is for everyone else, with elite squadrons like the blue lions having priority selection.  I'm wondering how this works IRL on carriers and such.

That's possible. (Also, it'd probably be a quick and easy job to replace a squadron crest as and when needed. What I said in my above post, I meant in jest).
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Bonehead on June 06, 2010, 06:03:33 pm
I've come up with an example of how the fighters might be organized on the Aquitaine:

1. 20 GTF Myrmidon:
   - 8 for 53rd Hammerheads
   - 4 for some other squadron(s)
   - 4 for everyone
   - 4 as replacements
2. 20 Hercules Mk. II
   - 8 for 107th Ravens
   - 4 for some other squadron(s)
   - 4 for everyone
   - 4 as replacements
3. 20 GTF Perseus
   - 8 for 242nd Suicide Kings
   - 4 for 134th Barracudas
   - 4 for everyone
   - 4 as replacements
3. 20 GTB Artemis
   - 8 for 64th Raptors
   - 6 for some other squadron(s)
   - 2 for everyone
   - 2 as replacements
4. 10 GTF Erinyes:
   - 6 for 70th Blue Lions
   - 2 for everyone
   - 2 as replacements
5. 10 GTF Pegasus
   - 4 for 134th Barracudas
   - 4 for everyone
   - 2 as replacements
6. 10 GTF Ares
   - 4 for 70th Blue Lions
   - 2 for 107th Ravens
   - 2 for everyone
   - 2 as replacements
7. 10 GTB Artemis D.H.
   - 4 for 64th raptors
   - 2 for some othe squadron(s)
   - 2 for everyone
   - 2 as replacements
8. 15 GTB Medusa
   - 5 for 64th Raptors
   - 4 for some other squadron(s)
   - 2 for all bomber squadrons
   - 4 as replacements
9. 10 GTB Boanerges
   - 4 for 64th Raptors
   - 4 for some other squadron(s)
   - 2 as replacements
10. 10 GTB Zeus
   - 4 for 64th raptors
   - 4 for some othe squadron(s)
   - 2 as replacements
11. 5 GTB Ursa
   - 2 for 64th raptors
   - 2 for all bomber squadrons
   - 1 as replacement
12. 4 GTF Ulysses
   - 2 for 134th Barracudas
   - 2 for everyonee


This gives a total of 154 combat spacecraft.  Please note that this is just a quickly-made example, I haven't actually went into game to look what ships are available in every mission.

Also add 12 support ships (1 for each squadron +1 extra).
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: headdie on June 06, 2010, 06:48:48 pm
the ulys were probably shipped in with the TAG A missiles adapted for the test

also 10 is less than an assumed squadron ho how dose the 70th field a full force in Erinyes

Aries is a limited deployment craft (more so than Erinyes as it is only available for top mission performance) so i would say 6 tops

also no one has mentioned the possibility that there might be a few Triton type freighters jumping about a fleet's destroyers carrying spare / reserve fighters and missiles which would explain the near endless supply of fighters.  Also I would imagine the turn around for an emptied freighter to return with new fighters from GTVA command would be days especially as the GTVA is already on the war footing
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Jabba on June 06, 2010, 07:38:39 pm
But I'd imagine that it would be awkward for the technicians having to spray on a different squadron crest each time a pilot from a different unit requests another unit's ship.

They are big magnets like 'L' plates on a car - ha ha  :D
Title: Re: How many fighters in a wing, how many wings in a squadron?
Post by: Dilmah G on June 06, 2010, 09:26:39 pm
Right, I think it's a bit how IRL squadrons usually have around 16-24 planes, but usually only sortie a flight (6-8) planes at a time. An operationally airborne squadron usually has around 3 wings airborne in FS, with anywhere between 2-6 ships per wing, but it also has about 1-2 wings worth of aircraft in reserve. In a situation like Love the Treason... It was perceived as a tactically correct move to deploy the entire squadron, including reserve wings, but I doubt you'd usually see squadrons airborne of that size.