Author Topic: Let's talk about the front page!  (Read 10364 times)

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Offline Axem

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Let's talk about the front page!
I'd like to ask the people of HLP two things.

One, how many of you use the front page? I'm guessing not a lot of you. There isn't much there except the newsletter and some now quite outdated highlights, so I don't really blame you.

So let's skip one then. What would you like to see on the front page? In "the olden times" HLP's front page had a bunch of content. Mods news, interviews, reference material, links to downloads, pictures, latest forum posts. A lot of that content has migrated elsewhere now, either to the forum or the wiki or sites like freespacemods or Sectorgame's FSfiles.

After a brief internal discussion we thought the front page should be an overview of what HLP is and what it has to offer. A prime advertisement to our works. Fancy inviting pictures of things like the MediaVPs, Diaspora, Wings of Dawn, TBP and a big giant "how to play" button to get new comers jump started (links to the gog store page, the fso installer and other things). And of course there would be things like news and highlights of recent activity still.

So what's your opinion? What would your idea of an HLP home page look like? Post links to other sites or crappy MS paint mockups if you like!

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
After a brief internal discussion we thought the front page should be an overview of what HLP is and what it has to offer. A prime advertisement to our works. Fancy inviting pictures of things like the MediaVPs, Diaspora, Wings of Dawn, TBP and a big giant "how to play" button to get new comers jump started (links to the gog store page, the fso installer and other things). And of course there would be things like news and highlights of recent activity still.
This sounds cool. :yes:
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schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

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<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

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Offline Mito [PL]

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
P3D previews of currently WIP models perhaps?
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
A brief history lesson:

HLP 1.0

HLP 2.0

HLP 3.0

The current main page is HLP 4.0.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
After a brief internal discussion we thought the front page should be an overview of what HLP is and what it has to offer. A prime advertisement to our works. Fancy inviting pictures of things like the MediaVPs, Diaspora, Wings of Dawn, TBP and a big giant "how to play" button to get new comers jump started (links to the gog store page, the fso installer and other things). And of course there would be things like news and highlights of recent activity still.
This sounds cool. :yes:
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline niffiwan

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
I could quadruple quote... but instead I'll just say that I agree, with one additional point, I'd really like the highlights to be done in one place only, the expression engine / main page ones look good, but it's a pain to have to duplicate the forums highlights, as can be seen by my recent woeful update schedule...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2016, 03:23:09 am by niffiwan »
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
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Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
Here's (a slightly edited version of) what I posted on the internal.

-------------------------------------

Well I'm not a web designer so I'm going to be hard pressed to describe what the website should look like. But I can point out what is very wrong with the current one. I'm going to make the assumption that the main users of HLP's main page are people new to the community. I might be wrong there but even if I am, I think we can agree that it is the entry point for anyone new.

So put yourself in their place and actually take a look at the main page. What do you see? Does the page look like a website with cool games for you to download?

The main page isn't bad if you know what HLP is. If you don't, it's going to take you a while to even figure out what the website is about! Want to hear something shocking? The word Freespace appears NOWHERE on the front page of HLP. There are no pictures of Freespace, Diaspora or anything else we have made. Cause Betrayal's project is currently the main highlight, the only image on the front page is a rather mysterious badge with some alien writing on it. I have to flick through two of the highlights to even find a picture of a ship, and no disrespect to Betrayal but a static image of a Shivan ship really doesn't look that impressive. Hell, even clicking on the newsletter doesn't help much when it comes to explaining what this site is about.

Then we have the big HLP badge. Now I love the HLP tagline and I'd never want to replace it, but it is so prominent on the front page that it makes it seem like HLP is a site for modders, not the place for fans of the Freespace games. We already have a name and a website address with no connection to Freespace or even Volition. Even if someone has been referred to HLP by a friend who has tried out the SCP, they're going to be a little confused and alienated by the main page. If they've just googled Freespace and ended up there, they might even suspect they've gone to the wrong place.

Picking at random look at the Team Fortress 2 page. The first thing that page does is slap you in the face with the fact that there is a free game you can download and play RIGHT NOW! Yeah, they still have the news and all the sorts of things we currently have but you're left in no doubt what that page is.

I would suggest we split the main page in two. The first part should be more like the Team Fortress page. It should have a section with great pics of Freespace 2 with pictures from Blue Planet and other great looking mods and a big button that points to the game on GOG (and Steam if we must. :p) and also a bit that says "Already got it! Here's how you upgrade it! We should also be doing the same with Diaspora, TBP and Wings of Dawn. Hell, maybe we should even have them first since they are absolutely free to play. Hook them in with the TCs and then get them playing Freespace.

Then we have have the HLP logo and a blurb about how this is also a site for modding the games above. Put the newsletter etc there. People who read it are already fans of the games we have.

Anyway, those are my suggestions, right now I'm just spitballing ideas but I think we really should shake things up a little.
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

[ Diaspora ] - [ Seeds Of Rebellion ] - [ Mind Games ]

 
Re: Let's talk about the front page!
One, how many of you use the front page? I'm guessing not a lot of you. There isn't much there except the newsletter and some now quite outdated highlights, so I don't really blame you.

So let's skip one then. What would you like to see on the front page? In "the olden times" HLP's front page had a bunch of content. Mods news, interviews, reference material, links to downloads, pictures, latest forum posts. A lot of that content has migrated elsewhere now, either to the forum or the wiki or sites like freespacemods or Sectorgame's FSfiles.

I don't look at the front page, I look at the unread post list on the forums. The front page is an entry point for new users, not a place for regulars to keep checking in at. It should be designed with that function in mind: a big glossy pitch to sell people on FSO and its mods and get them playing and posting.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 
Re: Let's talk about the front page!
The current front page is a pretty slick news feed for the audience that checks in every few weeks to months to see what's going on but it's absolutely terrible if you come at it from the perspective of a newbie who has only a vague idea that there's this thing called Freespace with a lot of cool mods.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline DefCynodont119

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
I would suggest we split the main page in two. The first part should be more like the Team Fortress page. It should have a section with great pics of Freespace 2 with pictures from Blue Planet and other great looking mods and a big button that points to the game on GOG (and Steam if we must. :p) and also a bit that says "Already got it! Here's how you upgrade it! We should also be doing the same with Diaspora, TBP and Wings of Dawn. Hell, maybe we should even have them first since they are absolutely free to play. Hook them in with the TCs and then get them playing Freespace.

Then we have have the HLP logo and a blurb about how this is also a site for modding the games above. Put the newsletter etc there. People who read it are already fans of the games we have.

Anyway, those are my suggestions, right now I'm just spitballing ideas but I think we really should shake things up a little.


Hmm, I made a fast example image of Karajorma's idea. (Attachment.jpg Below)

I spent less then 5-ish minuets on it in paint, so take It with some sodium chloride. It's just a rough layout idea.    I can make better art then that I swear

The only thing worth noting in my example is the "parallelogram" design with the TCs and Freespace. all other stuff is just placeholder to a placeholder.

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 03:28:25 pm by DefCynodont119 »
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Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
That is actually a really good starting point. I love how don't and center it is to play RIGHT NOW.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
I haven't used the frontpage in years, and I wholeheartedly agree with kara and PH.  I also vividly recall my own introduction to the SCP and HLP years ago, and how confusing it was.  What the frontpage needs, bolded and centered, is something like this:

Quote
Hard-Light Productions (HLP) is the home of the FreeSpace 2 Source Code Project (SCP).  FreeSpace 2 was originally released in 1999; its developers later released its source code.  In the years since, a substantial community has formed at HLP dedicated to the continual update and enhancement of the code into a modern space-flight engine, the development of FreeSpace mods (which require the original game), and Total Conversion projects (which are free standalone games that function entirely using the SCP engine).  The new engine is now referred to as FreeSpace Open (FSOpen).  All of the materials hosted on or by HLP are provided free of charge.

Getting Started
- If you are interested in FreeSpace 2 and its mods, you will need the original game.  It can be purchased at the following online retailers: <links to Steam and GOG pages>
- The upgrades to the base game are the FSOpen engine, found here <link> and the MediaVPs (updated graphic enhancements), found here <link>.  Both are required to play FreeSpace 2 under the improved engine with the improved modern graphics.
- HLP hosts a substantial FreeSpace modding community.  Please check the forums under Missions and Campaigns <link>, Community Projects, and Hosted Projects <link> for FreeSpace 2-related mods.
- HLP also hosts mods for other games, and standalone Total Conversions (TCs).  Please consult the appropriate forum sections <links>
- The primary community, help, and resources are based in the forums.  Please consult them regularly for updated information.  You can get started with support or help by posting your question in the Support forum <link>

Recent Community News and Highlights
- Insert here

Incidentally - this goes to show long long its been since I downloaded anything FS-related - I can find no mention of the installer.  Is it now defunct?

Regardless, a concise, clear introduction to what the community is and where to go for the main parts of it that bring people to HLP is really needed.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline DefCynodont119

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
@MP-Ryan, So perhaps a link to a "Getting started" page with all the information on It could be placed on the top part of the page.

I think that the Intro sentence you made could be made to sit there as well, (but much smaller) and/or something else? I'll make a better example version later.


PS:
I literally used the Installer yesterday. It's not defunct.  :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
My gift from Freespace to Cities Skylines:  http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=639891299

 

Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
The fact that it took your post to make me notice there is a menu bar with a link to the installer at the top of the site now is probably indicative that the menu bar should be made a little more obvious.  I'd also say a link to FSOpen and the Installer should both be front-and-center on the main page.
"In the beginning, the Universe was created.  This made a lot of people very angry and has widely been regarded as a bad move."  [Douglas Adams]

 

Offline mjn.mixael

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
I said it once and I'll say it again... I really really like that layout. To be very specific, I really really like how DOWNLOAD RIGHT THE FRICK NOW is front and center... literally unmissable.
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Between the Ashes is looking for committed testers, PM me for details.
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Offline Axem

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
I made this mockup, mostly based off of the current main page, but trying to bring in what we've talked about.



I did really like MP-Ryan's text, but I feel it belongs on its own About Us page. It's too wordy to immediately draw people in. Front page needs to be IN YO' FACE!! On my mock up I tell people "This site is about FreeSpace 2! Buy it at these places, then upgrade with this! And take a look at the stuff we do!"

The showcase would be like permanent highlights for high quality released campaigns/standalone games. It would be a continuously scrolling arrangement of images, and the order would be randomized. More often than not we would just add on to it, stuff doesn't come down off the showcase unless its become terribly broken or abandoned.

On the side we have links to About Us (where MP-Ryan's text could go, along with our history), links to the wiki, hosted projects, the forum and other ways to interact. Below those links would be Forum Highlights, automatically taken from the highlights board (also I think we should boost the highlight image size, 160x50?? What is this, 1996???). Then the main panel would be HLP news, automatically taken from the news forum with a link to the thread.

 
Re: Let's talk about the front page!
No, I think MP-Ryan's blurb should be right there front and centre. If someone wants to see the news then they already know what FSO is and are interested in it! Your design makes it easy to find where to get FSO, but not what it is or why you would want it.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
Legit vote for coding up Axem's mock-up pretty much verbatim.

 
Re: Let's talk about the front page!
This is the Elite: Dangerous website. It's a big, glossy pitch aimed at telling you what Elite: Dangerous is, what you do in it and why you want to get it, with some clearly-marked navigation to the bits actual players are interested in. I think we need a similar page somewhere, that just sells FSO to people, and I think it needs to be at the main entry point for the site. Axem's prototype is mostly focused on navigation and news, which is a mistake because people arriving to the site from the first time don't care about those things.
The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell.

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Let's talk about the front page!
Okay what if we do this? About Us shows by default, and user can switch to a news tab? Or we just get rid of the news? Or get rid of the show case? How do we sell FSO to someone? I was trying to do it with screenshots. Do we need to sell FreeSpace itself to people?

Also should we list what FSO exactly adds? How in depth do we get?

[attachment deleted by admin]
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 08:30:46 pm by Axem »