[Mongoose]

(I know there's some crossover with Mars's video card thread, but I didn't want to totally hijack his.)

So here's my current situation: I'm typing this on what is at its core a 2004 Dell system I bought for college, with all that it entails.  That includes a Pentium 4 processor, Windows XP, and *sigh* a slowly-dying CRT which has probably given me several forms of cancer by this point.  Over the years I've replaced RAM, a video card, and a HDD, plus I've swapped out a dead PSU on another machine, so I have some experience with pretty much everything beyond installing a CPU.  Up until this past year I haven't been in a financial situation to let me sit down and build an actual gaming rig, at least not the caliber I'd really want, but I finally have enough set aside to have a serious go at it.  But seeing as how I have only a general idea of where to start, I was hoping some of you would be willing to lend a bit of expertise.

I do have a few general ideas as to what I'm looking for, and what I particularly need some help with, so I can get those listed.  Before that, though, I saw Fury mention that Tom's Hardware recently put out a list of articles for their recommended items for the first half of 2015.  Should I pretty much be sticking to those for my choices, or are there any other good summary listings I should know about?

Price/Performance: Figure that's the best starting point.  I'm willing to spend somewhere in the $1500-$2000 range, display included.  I don't necessarily need the absolute highest-performance components that were just released yesterday, but I would like it to be as close as reasonably possible.  I know anything's immediately outdated the moment you buy the parts, but I want a system that can easily handle pretty much anything I throw at it today, and still remain fairly competitive for a few years, with the capacity for requisite upgrades.  At the same time, though, I'm not looking to do any overclocking, or exotic cooling, or any sort of SLI/CrossFire setup.  Just a really solid no-frills system.

CPU/GPU:  My preferences for these would be Intel and Nvidia, respectively, since it seems like every high-profile video issue I've heard about over the past few years has primarily affected AMD cards.  I know Fury said something about some sort of brand-new line coming out from AMD in a month or two, but I'm not really willing to wait that long in order to get things started, and besides, that's presumably always going to be the case no matter what component you're talking about.

Motherboard:  Absolutely no clue how that works.  Halp.

Memory:  What are we up to, DDR4 now?  This part I think I can handle, provided someone recommends me a good brand.  And I'd assume that I'd want to go with at least 16 GB, if not even more.

Storage:  I know the standard procedure now seems to be to get a nice SSD for your OS partition and a few specific types of programs, and then a big-ass HDD for general storage.  The former's something I don't really have any experience with, so any help on brands or performance concerns would be greatly appreciated.  Also a minor thing, but since I'm one of the comparative few still dedicated to physical media, I'll need at least a BD-ROM, if not writer.

Sound: Is it even worth getting a dedicated video card anymore?  I know I've heard people say that on-board audio is good enough these days for most purposes, so if that's true I'll gladly pass it up.

Display:  Yeah...if I never have to stare at another CRT again it'll be too soon.  I know there are a couple of different technologies at play here, but I'm specifically looking for something that would be good for gaming purposes.  Resolution-wise, I seem to recall hearing that most sizes somewhat larger than 1080p are sadly hard to come buy, and I don't think I need something as insane as a 4K display.  As far as a multi-monitor setup...well it might be fun, cost permitting, but not exactly a necessity.

PSU:  I know the capacity depends on what exactly I'm putting in here, and I've also taken to heart the dire warnings about not skimping on it.  Is there a particular brand I should go for?

Case/Fans: Now this I know next to nothing about, other than a lot of it depends on my own preferences.  Obviously getting something that's easy to work with and has ports galore is a plus.  Having a built-in dust filter would be handy too, since I'm not exactly religious about cleaning out my case.  I'd also need some serious help figuring out the whole fan-amount-and-placement thing when the time comes.

Peripherals: Ehh, not a huge priority.  Somehow my ancient 2-button generic Dell optical is still hanging on; I got a recommendation for a Logitech G500 as a decent gaming mouse, but I still haven't gotten around to buying it.  Also using a generic Dell keyboard that's as old as my system; I wouldn't mind getting a nice mechanical at some point, but this one's still kicking for now.  And I have a set of Altec-Lansing speakers that came off a family desktop from (I swear) 15 years ago and are still holding up remarkably well.  Unfortunately I don't have the environment that would allow for an awesome 7.1 setup, at least not for the time being.

That's everything I can think of at the moment.  Thanks in advance for anyone who manages to read through all of this and still has a shred of patience left to give some advice!

[deathspeed]

The motherboard is the backbone of your system.  Whatever you get, make sure that your CPU and RAM are compatible with the motherboard.  DDR4 systems are starting to come out, but the choices are fairly limited and pricey compared to DDR3.  DDR4 is more future-resistant, though.

Integrated graphics have come a long way, but if you want to do any sort of gaming, you should get a dedicated video card.  You have plenty of room with that budget. 

You might check out the hardware boards at newegg (used to be eggxpert.com).  I have seen some excellent advice on that board, and they have a comprehensive tiered power supply list.   Many people post their suggested or desired builds, and if you post a parts list, people will help you determine if the parts are compatible, and will suggest alternatives.

ArsTechnica and TechSpot occasionally do gaming builds at different price points, and I am sure many other sites do as well.

I am looking at upgrading my system soon, with a Core i5 4690, a sub-$100 LGA1150 motherboard, and 8 or 16 GB of DDR3 RAM (about $400 in parts, but it's hard to save that up with three kids in the home!).  I will still use my case I bought in 2004, Corsair 600W PSU, 128 GB OCZ SSD, bigger WD HDDs, Asus DVD burner, and GTX480 video card, as well as my Asus 24" 1920x1080 monitor.

I'll keep an eye on this thread, and maybe post a suggested parts list tomorrow.  Good luck!!

[Fury]

http://www.tomshardware.com/t/build-your-own/
http://www.logicalincrements.com/

CPU/GPU: NVIDIA has had their own share of embarrassments, it is in no way exclusive to AMD. Also, you may want to check out my latest post in Mars' topic. But the bottom line is, whatever you get is good enough. There really are no bad choices within your budget.

Motherboard: You're going to want a motherboard with latest chipset. If your preference is Intel, then the chipset you're going to want is Z97. The problem is, all major brands have about 20 different models with slightly different feature sets. You're just going to have to do a bit of research trying to find what's the best fit for you.

Memory: We're up to DDR4 yes, but there are no motherboards supporting DDR4 yet, unless you want to waste your money on real expensive motherboards. Intel's Skylake should come later this summer that features DDR3/DDR4 support. Might be a good idea to wait for Skylake. Once you have picked a suitable motherboard, please make sure to look up the QVL (qualified-vendor-list) for supported memory brands and models for the motherboard. By selecting RAM that is in the QVL, you reduce chances of compatibility issues between RAM and motherboard.

Sound: The most important aspect to consider is what is the source of your audio. If all you listen to are mp3's, ogg's or whatever that are not lossless, then there is no much sense in investing into a sound card. On the other hand, if you have high-quality lossless audio in flac or equivalent, then it might make sense to invest into audio equipment. But audio investment does not need to be expensive, as long as you don't make the mistake of investing into internal sound cards, they're mostly useless. Instead you can look into external sound cards, like Asus Xonar U7, or any decent USB-DAC. Bottom line, if you upgrade from onboard audio, go for external DAC.

Storage: SSDs around 512GB capacity have become quite affordable. So you may not even need any internal drives other than a single SSD. For storage, any external drive should suffice. You can even hook them to a local network, accessible from any computer in the local network.

Display: Well, there really are two primary factors to consider here. The first is refresh rate. The newest fad is G-Sync (NVIDIA) and FreeSync (AMD). Although as usual, FreeSync is part of the VESA standard and thus can be supported by NVIDIA as well if they're willing. Whereas G-Sync is once again exclusive to NVIDIA. Monitors supporting either should be available in retail. If you want a monitor best suited for gaming, look for those. If you feel they're too expensive or don't like what's available, the second best are monitors that support 144Hz refresh rate. Although in my experience frames higher than 60 are usually difficult to attain in the latest titles even with the best single-GPU available today, but they're still the second best option for gaming.

Now, if you have other considerations than gaming, then you should consider monitors that have IPS panel. They have far superior image quality over the TN panels typically used in home-grade/gaming monitors. Combining IPS panel with high refresh rate and G-Sync/FreeSync is going to cost. A monitor however is a long-term investment and actually a very important one, it is what you'll be staring at every minute you're in front of your computer. A good quality monitor can make a big difference in eye strain.

All that said, take a look at Asus PG279Q. It is not available quite yet, but should be pretty damn impressive. Price tag on it is $800 though.

PSU: Indeed, watts never tell the truth about how good a PSU actually is. Build quality is extremely important and bad PSUs rated at insane watts can perform worse than good PSUs at half watts. My personal preference is Seasonic, but there are plenty of good brands. And funnily enough many of those brands use rebranded Seasonics. This website specializes in reviewing PSUs: http://www.jonnyguru.com/

Case/Fans: Fan-placement is not rocket science, since there are limited number of fan slots. For decent airflow, just place one fan in front, another in back (or up if that is an option) and you're good to go. If you do not like to clean your case, make sure you get a case that is well sealed with no extra holes and that has washable air filter in front. Another thing to consider is how big fans the case can use, I wouldn't go anything smaller than 12cm because smaller ones tend to be noisy. One more thing to consider is how easily a case lets you access the components, a case where opening side panel is difficult or a case where reaching key components is difficult is a bad case.

Peripherals: Logitech G500 is old, I don't think it is being sold anymore. You might want to consider Logitech G502 and Logitech G710 to get some pleasure into KB+M gaming. You may also want to consider Logitech M570 for general desktop use to reduce wrist strain. I use M570 at home and work, and I never use traditional mice for anything but fast-action gaming.

And last but not least, you should invest into internal components in following order.
1) PSU
2) Motherboard
3) Everything else.
Yes, PSU and motherboard are the two most important components in any PC. Make sure they're of good quality.

[Mongoose]

Thanks for the early feedback; I'll start looking into it in more detail when it isn't so stupidly late.  The pseudo-problem I'm already running into is that I see all of these myriad options and start going into some sort of "buyer's anxiety" mode where I just feel like I'm locking up.  I feel like I might be better off mostly basing my build on one of those layouts you guys have linked, since at least then I'll know I have a set of options to fall back on.

[rev_posix]

Without knowing your budget, it's hard for anyone to give anything beyond generic advice.  If you can, give a figure and we can go from there.

That being said, I will also stress what has been said before, do NOT skimp on the power supply.  My own preferences are Seasonic and mid-range Corsairs, modular if possible (makes the cable management so much easier).

Jonnyguru is a good site to look at, but they tend to primarily look at the higher end supplies.  That being said, they have looked at mid range units, as well as posted a few 'reviews' on the dangers of low end cheap supplies.

As for a build guide, pcpartpicker.com has some as well, along with a way to spec out a build with a URL for others to look at and critique.

[LHN91]

Unfortunately, with Power Supplies, the important part is often the manufacturer who made the unit, not the brand on the box. Some brands will have excellent high-end equipment and atrocious mid-range, due to using a reputable manufacturer for the high-end and a mediocre one for the mid-range.

Essentially, you'll need to check reviews before purchasing one.

[zookeeper]

Memory:  What are we up to, DDR4 now?  This part I think I can handle, provided someone recommends me a good brand.  And I'd assume that I'd want to go with at least 16 GB, if not even more.

Storage:  I know the standard procedure now seems to be to get a nice SSD for your OS partition and a few specific types of programs, and then a big-ass HDD for general storage.  The former's something I don't really have any experience with, so any help on brands or performance concerns would be greatly appreciated.  Also a minor thing, but since I'm one of the comparative few still dedicated to physical media, I'll need at least a BD-ROM, if not writer.

Both memory and storage needs very much depend on what you're going to be doing.

If you're just going to be gaming with some browser tabs open, then likely even 8GB could suffice. Surely not even new games require more than that? Unless you need to do some very memory-intensive things (that you couldn't have even dreamed about on your old system), 16GB definitely ought to be sufficient for many years into the future.

As for storage, well, obviously enough it depends on how much you need. Pairing a smaller SSD with a bigger HDD is very common, but it's also rather inconvenient if the SSD is so small that you can't actually fit all your programs on it but end up with some programs installed on one drive and others on another, so I'd at least get a big enough SSD that you can by default put everything there and only keep big blobs which don't have anything to do with the operation of any part of your system on the HDD (like music, movies, installers, working files, etc).

[asyikarea51]

The X99's run DDR4, don't they?

But the price on those is just WTF  sticker shock isn't enough to describe it, in my local currency it's to the tune of USD$1650 for JUST the board and cpu, and USD$410 for 32GB of DDR4. At which point one will ask, "where's the casing? the psu? and all the other required bells and whistles basic items to actually make the stupid thing switch on?"

My old PC isn't dying a slow death yet but it's showing its age, hard disks probably have bad sectors all over even though I hope not, but it'll be at least half a year to pool enough to build something new, and that timeframe is already generous...

Haven't seen and/or dealt with computers for the past few years now (no time to follow news + I'm n00b with assembly anyway), but I'll echo the Z97 suggestion. I don't think the socket will go obsolete too soon, and IIRC there's a wide range of CPUs for the socket, say if you need to cut $$$ on the CPU for a better graphic card, maybe throw in an el-cheapo G3258 Pentium, and then go i7 4790K within < 6 months when money permits (disclaimer: this is just a brainless example, didn't think about the actual $ being spent by doing this). I have no opinions on SSDs, don't have personal experience with one, but I know I wouldn't use one even for my hopeful next build - post-failure data recovery paranoia and lack of space. I can tolerate <5min boot times.

I probably have some misconceptions somewhere in my logic since all my past... builds... were pure n00b rubbish...

[TechnoD11]

Hey Mongoose,
You're very fortunate in that I build computers for a living. I usually charge for this advice but you'll get it for free.
I've got two builds here for you. First is $1500, second is $2000 (to match the estimate you gave in your post). You can find them here:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23AA75D02AFAFE65!179306&authkey=!ABjE4UnpHUoo6-U&ithint=file%2cxlsx

The totals listed for those PC's are subject to change based on promo code availability.
You'll notice I put in an IPS 1080P display. Higher resolution panels do cost substantially more and for now you'll probably be best off with a 1080P IPS, but you can always upgrade later.

Hope this helps,

TechnoD11

[Klaustrophobia]

A few incomplete thoughts on various components that occur to me immediately without any further thought:


Mouse:  I use wireless.  And there is no substitute to the logitec G602.  Every bit as good as the revered microsoft intellimouse 2.0 it replaced after 10 years.  I've never noticed any lag from wireless that most gamers decry as unacceptable.  What I DO notice is the cord snagging on things and getting tugged around.  That throws of my aim far more than any lag ever would.

Ram: 16 GB is a pretty solid place to be at today's prices, but by no means necessary.  I just recently went from 12 gb of ddr3 1600 to 16 gb of ddr3 2400 (running at 2133 because that's all the motherboard supports) and there was no improvement.  (anyone want to buy 12 gb of high-quality, thoroughly tested ram for cheap? )  As for brand, g.skill hasn't done me wrong yet.  I can vouch for their customer service actually being useful. 

CPU cooler:  Cooler Master Hyper 212+.  I've got my 2700k up to 4.6 without breaking a sweat.  No functional difference to the EVO, and usually $10 cheaper as long as you catch a rebate.

Case: Cooler Master HAF 912.  Beefy mid-size with plenty of room for aforementioned cooler and really big video cards.  HDD bays (including 2.5 ones for SSDs without needing adapters) can be moved/removed for extra room if required.  PSU bottom mounted with a pretty basic dust screen.  Front mesh functions pretty well as a dust screen, though it will show the dirt.  Quick puff of compressed air or even just a wipe down cleans it out.  The only thing I don't really like is the massive fan grill on the top that's just open since I didn't bother to add any fans other than what came with it (no need).  It has no lights or side window, which is a plus for me as mine also serves as a HTPC.

Sound card:  I can't speak much about the newest sound cards, but I beg to differ with Fury about internal cards being a waste.  I have a (really old) Creative XtremeMusic (PCI) that is just miles better than onboard sound (once I did battle with Creative's drivers and emerged bloody, but victorious).

[Mongoose]

Hey Mongoose,
You're very fortunate in that I build computers for a living. I usually charge for this advice but you'll get it for free.
I've got two builds here for you. First is $1500, second is $2000 (to match the estimate you gave in your post). You can find them here:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=23AA75D02AFAFE65!179306&authkey=!ABjE4UnpHUoo6-U&ithint=file%2cxlsx

The totals listed for those PC's are subject to change based on promo code availability.
You'll notice I put in an IPS 1080P display. Higher resolution panels do cost substantially more and for now you'll probably be best off with a 1080P IPS, but you can always upgrade later.

Hope this helps,

TechnoD11

Oh wow...thank you so much for this!  And thanks to everyone for your continuing recommendations.  I'll see if I can sort through all of this and come up with a preliminary setup in the next day or two.

[swashmebuckle]

I haven't done an exhaustive study of codecs or anything, but onboard sound seems rather great these days. Even the low end options utterly crush the CD players and other systems of the recent past. For significantly improving your audio, the thing to invest a bit of energy in IMO is finding speakers (or headphones) that you like the sound of for all the material you're going to be listening to and positioning them properly in a good sounding room. Compared to that, all the other things you could spend money on offer pretty marginal returns.

Unless you're an audiophile, in which case they offer massive psychological returns and I recommend inch-thick woven gold power cables suspended by cryogenically frozen electromagnets.

[Dark RevenantX]

X99 ASUS boards come with very good onboard sound.  I don't use it, because I have a Xonar Essence STX from my previous build, but that build had a crappy realtek chip.  If you get a discrete solution for sound, ensure the sound system it's driving is worth the extra money.  If you have $300 headphones, maybe a $150 headphone amp could be a decent investment.  Extra features like you see on Creative cards are snake oil; you should only really care about signal quality, amplification, EQ, etc.

In your price range, I'd go for a socket 2011 v3 CPU, preferably 5820K.  Stick something nice on it, like a Corsair H105 or a Noctua NH-D14 or NH-D15 (depending on how much space you have).  With the latter you will need a full tower, but it will be quieter.  Water vs air is generally: Water has, typically, the same temps as similarly-priced air unless you push your chip very far when overclocking -- where it will gain the advantage (but not by a large margin).  Moreover, water coolers tend to be much louder than air coolers, due to the hit-and-miss quality of the fans, the fact that they have pumps, and that they are mounted pointing outside your case.  They also use more power and are harder to install, but don't take up much space and can fit in small cases (if they're designed for radiator mounts).  On the other hand, huge heatsinks (for air) are heavier than just about any PCB can officially support, and only work when mounted on static hardware.  If you transport your computer (such as in the trunk of a car), you have to remove the heatsink or you run the risk of breaking your motherboard.

You can get even better cooling with a custom loop, but that's probably out of your budget.

GPU is up to you.  My suggestion is a 980 Ti.  Can't really do much better than that.

16 GB DDR4 is fine.  Two or four sticks; doesn't matter since RAM bandwidth is virtually never a bottleneck.

Get a SSD and a much larger HDD.

Case is completely up to you.  Don't overspend on something that looks fancy if it doesn't have the feature set to back it up.

With this hardware, a reputable 800W power supply should be enough.  If you plan on maybe adding another GPU, get 1000W.  If you plan on heavy use for a long time (full load several hours every day for more than 2 years) and/or have a lot of extra components, make that 1000W / 1200W, respectively.

[MP-Ryan]

Sad I'm late to this thread, but as a few people have said, the Tom's Hardware System Builder Marathons are a fantastic starting point.  Never steered me wrong with a little research on top.

Another bit of advice which may or may not have been covered (I just skimmed so far):  the price-performance curve.  Visual: https://community.logos.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/77/0028.Price-Performance.JPG

PC part pricing exists on a curve.  Near the top end of the curve, performance gains are very small next to the jump in pricing.  Ergo, you are better to set a maximum budget and try not to reach it.  You generally want to buy parts in the area where the curve is most similar to a linear function.  This may mean that you are actually better off buying components that are not the latest generation, yet perform nearly as well as the latest generation.  This can save you staggering sums of money, which you can reinvest into upgrades in a few years.

This is the way I've built my systems.  My current system has just finally become 'gaming obsolete' as it's not quad-core.  The base system was built in 2008.  At the time, it cost $1200 for the base system components (tower and everything in it), with another $400 in peripherals.  Since then, I've replaced a video card (original died), PSU (upgraded), heatsink+fan (stock one was crap), and added a solid-state drive.

If you're buying top-end components, you're generally wasting money.

[Gee1337]

Here are a few more thoughts for you.

Bang per buck (pound in my case), AMD wins with this one 9 times out of ten, but AMD's best CPUs currently cannot match the high performance Intel chips, which is why you pay more for an Intel. However, AMD chips are perfectly fine for gaming (more on CPUs at the end of this post). I have an FX8370 which is overclocked variably by the motherboard. AMD as a general rule will overclock easier and better than the Intels. Another general rule is to go for an Intel if you are gaming as most games will run better on them because of the processing method they use, but if you like multi-tasking then an AMD would be better for you.

The motherboard is critical. Take care when connecting the front panel connectors. Try and get a higher end board if possible. If you go for an AMD cpu, then a higher end board is crucial if you are overclocking, for stability reasons. Again, if you overclock don't skimp on the cooling either, as you don't want to fry your CPU.

The GFX card is the most important component in most cases as this will power your games. I would say not to consider SLI or Crossfire as it seems to cause more problems than it is worth from what I've seen. It is very much a toss up between NVidia and AMD, but if you want to have more than 3 screens, than I would suggest an NVidia. I have a GTX 770 4GB Palit Jetstream, as I have 3 screens and a big-ass TV hooked to me box. If you do multi-screen gaming, than I would get a GPU with atleast 4GB onboard RAM.

Get a large case... full tower! Where as a midi-tower will most likely be okay, most GPUs are getting large... very large... 12 inches long large. This means that there will be problems when physically fitting the card into the case and a potential for a disruption in airflow (not definite though). You don't want to buy a new GFX card and find out that it doesn't fit.

With regards to AMD's new line of CPUs, forget waiting if you want something in the next month or two. AMD's new range is atleast a year away. It is a new architecture called "ZEN", which could place AMD back in the high-end market and compete with Intel's future Skylake range... but it is atleast a year away! I'm looking forward to "ZEN" as it shows a lot of promise and I hope that it will seriously give Intel a run for its money.

[Mongoose]

Yeah, no worries about overclocking; I'm not interested in fooling around with it at all.  And thanks for the overall pricing advice Ryan.  You're right in that I'm not looking to just throw money at Newegg for the hell of it, but I do want to maybe go a bit closer to the right-hand side of the curve just for the sake of having something that I don't feel obligated to upgrade in a year or two.  For once in my life, I want to actually own something shiny and awesome, and this might be my only chance.

Anyway, I'm still feeling things out, but hopefully tonight or tomorrow I can have at least a preliminary listing to get some feedback on.  If there weren't like 50 options available for every damn thing, and each of those with its own variants, this would be a hell of a lot easier...

[Gee1337]

It isn't easy, especially when getting advice as you have to be wary of various fanboyism as well.

I've generally always gone AMD because of price/performance ratios. If you do the same, then I would not go any higher than the 8370, as the 9xxx CPUs get very hot.

Shame about you not considering overclocking, as there are some very good guides out there and if done properly, then you can get massive performance increases for a smaller budget. However, because of this you would probably be better of considering something in the Intel i5 range rather than the i7.

I would probably suggest you very much go mid-range and only just to the right of the curve, with a view to upgradingin 18 months or so, after Intel and AMD new architectures have been benchmarked.

[MP-Ryan]

Mongoose, if it helps at all, I've settled on upgrading my existing system again, which is going to necessitate a complete swap of motherboard+RAM+CPU.  I also stay away from overclocking - it voids warranties - and I've settled it out in this range:

Intel i5 4590 or 4690 (depending on pricing).
MSI or Asus H97 (mid-tier) or Z97 motherboard (precise model depends on pricing).
8 GB DDR3 RAM (unless a 16 GB it goes on ultra cheap).

EDIT:  Looking at Techno's builds, this is basically the core of his $1500 system, minus the overclocking.  If you're uninterested in overclocking, you can drop his build to a i5 4590 or 4690 (no K), and an H97 motherboard - the only real difference between the H and Z series is overclocking support.  That said, the pricing differences in the mid-range boards are negligible.

Based on sale pricing, I'm just waiting until this combination clocks in around $400 CAD.  Lowest its dipped thus far is $423 in the last couple months, but I'm not in a rush.  These are the upper end of the i5 range.  I ruled out AMD because they tend to run hotter and their performance is not as good as their equivalent Intel CPUs, though they are substantially less expensive.  I've run both over the years, and developed a preference for Intel's CPUs, though I know many people swear by AMD.  As I said, my current system is running base components that are 7 years old, so reliability and longevity tend to be important to me.

Which is my other point of caution - do not confuse more money for slightly more powerful components with future-proofing.  Spending 20-50% more on a component by no means guarantees you'll get 20-50% more life out of it.  Usually, the performance differences are small enough that both will last you the same amount of time before an upgrade is required, one just cost a bunch more for a slight performance gain.

[Fury]

@Gee1337

The latest AMD desktop chipset, the 900 series is grossly outdated. It was released back in 2011, only supports PCIE 2.0, USB 2.0, SATA 3.0. There is at least one Asus 900-series motherboard that has PCIE 3.0 support, but I've never seen it in stock anywhere. Makes me wonder if that is simply a printing error. But even if that mobo does exist somewhere, PCIE 3.0 is not officially supported by the chipset and I don't know what Asus did to make it work. But based on poor availability, I wouldn't count on it.

Even though AMD CPUs appear cheaper at first glance, they have poor performance-per-watt ratio. The fastest AMD CPU, the FX-9590 has 220W TDP which is not supported by most 900-series motherboards. Even those that do support it, have had problems with supplying the CPU with enough juice. There have even been reports of motherboard dying after prolonged use of the CPU at max. The next best CPU, the FX-8370 has TDP of 125W, this is the only FX CPU worth considering. There is also E-model of the FX-8370 at 95W TDP, but it has lower clocks. In addition, all the AMD FX CPUs are based on the 2012 Piledriver architechture, which is two generations behind.

If we compare gaming performance, I have bad news to you. FX-9590 has at times trouble beating Intel i3 in gaming performance and i5 solidly beats the FX-9590 most of the time. You can get the cheapest i5 of the current Intel generation for the same price as FX-8370.

Which leaves us with AMD's FM2+ APUs and motherboards, those actually offer much better bang for the buck. The latest FM2+ motherboard chipset is much more recent, released in 2014 and supports PCIE 3.0 and USB 3.0. The desktop APUs are still one generation behind, but at least that's better than two generations of the FX CPUs. The latest APUs more or less trade blows with Intel i3 in gaming performance, with i3 coming top more often than not. This is discounting iGPU performance, where AMD obviously runs circles around any of the Intel iGPUs.

If you really want to go with AMD, go for FM2+ or wait until sometime 2016. Otherwise, you're much better off with Intel.

AMD's net loss of over 400 million USD last year and shares falling over 60% in past three years is disheartening. I'd like to support AMD by buying their products, but it simply doesn't make any sense to buy their vastly inferior and outdated FX CPUs. APUs would be a decent choice for general purpose non-gaming PC, but I'd rather run to nearest store to buy a cheap laptop for that purpose. I would strongly consider the APUs for living room media PC though.

There have been strong rumors about AMD being targeted for a buyout. Such rumors are feasible because AMD has been operating at a net loss for many years and have accumulated considerable debt. If such a buyout happens, future of AMD is in the hands of whoever buys the company and all bets are off. In addition, Intel can intervene with any buyout because Intel owns the x86 license, which is not transferable to a 3rd party. Sure, AMD owns AMD64 which is used in x86_64, but seeing as how difficult it was to come to terms of x86 licensing when AMD cut their fab business into GlobalFoundries, anything can happen.

AMD's time is running out. They need to pay 600 million USD debt in 2019, and seeing as they haven't made profit in years... Yep, buyout is a given regardless of what happens to the x86 license. No options there.

[Gee1337]

@ Fury

I think you need to re-read  my posts as you have essentially just echo'd 95% of what I have said but just thrown in figures for good measure.

TDP is a pointless arguement in desktops. Laptops yes, desktops no! I've already said to not go for the 9xxx series. That is also why I have an FX8370.

I think you might want to watch this vid when it comes to TDP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBeeGHozSY0.

I am waiting for next year for the ZEN architecture, as it looks like it could seriously be the business. That is also why I have advised Mongoose to go for an Intel rather than an AMD as he wants his build done quickly and he is predominantly gaming.