Hard Light Productions Forums
Hosted Projects - FS2 Required => Blue Planet => Topic started by: Phantom Hoover on September 11, 2012, 08:13:34 pm
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There's an issue with WiH and the recent builds of the SCP that result in Karunas rapidly taking damage from their own weapons, which makes some missions that require escorting them disproportionately hard. The fix for this is simple:
1. Download this file, containing a fixed model for the Karuna: Download (http://www.mediafire.com/?tzyzg91iyjanj5a) (Current Dev version in SVN - Darius)
2. Create a directory called 'data' in your WiH mod directory (i.e. blueplanet2) and inside that create a 'models' directory.
3. Unpack the fixed model, KarunaMk1.pof, into the models directory.
This should stop the Karunas blowing themselves up before the GTVA can get to them.
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There was a code solution once
http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=2664 (http://scp.indiegames.us/mantis/view.php?id=2664)
But it seems not much have changed.
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I understand that that issue was only part of the problem; the Karuna's model radius is also far too large, and there was an LOD alignment bug of some sort. In any case, a day-old build of 3.6.13 from SVN still has treacherous UEF gunnery crews, so I think this fix is still needed.
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Thank you so much! I'll give it a try.
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I understand that that issue was only part of the problem; the Karuna's model radius is also far too large, and there was an LOD alignment bug of some sort. In any case, a day-old build of 3.6.13 from SVN still has treacherous UEF gunnery crews, so I think this fix is still needed.
Fixing the Karuna's model radius restored the as-intended balance of WiH. The patch on the other hand makes a change to shockwave damage calculations to make it more accurate - the downside is that this will also affect balance, just in other direction (i.e. Karuna's would survive longer because they're taking less self-damage than "normal"). Because of this, I'm not going to follow up on the code patch until after 3.6.14 is out :)
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Okay, one thing to note (may be unrelated): after dying, Karunas (and other ships, which is what makes me think this may not be related) have their debris chunks spinning like Sonic dreams he could do on a good day. And yes, they do this almost every time. The rate of spin is almost instantly determined, and is usually extremely high. The debris chunks are usually non-collidable, and can be destroyed themselves with enough firepower, though they usually move away from the point of origin too fast to nab many of them.
Also, spinning Solaris of death (an alive one, actually; likely stemming from an entirely different issue about docking and 'Does Not Move' not meshing well with 'Guardianed' and '`K') in spaz fashion, with a speed comparable to Big Rigs: Over The Road Racing (reverse) turns out to be the true Great Destroyer, not the Shivans.
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Most of the subobjects have a radius of 0 or close to that, which is what's causing the issue. Open up KarunaMk1.pof in PCS2, select each subobject, and reset max radius.
EDIT: I've taken the liberty of uploading a fixed version. (http://www.mediafire.com/?uutchvddeak11qz)
EDIT2: use link in first post.
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There was also a bug I had where I couldn't dock with the fighterbay without noclipping; does resetting the subobject radii fix that as well?
5-second EDIT: Battuta has confirmed that this is the case on IRC, Aesaar's fix should be bug-free.
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Ok, I'm sure I'm doing something wrong here, 'cause I downloaded this model and for the life of me I can't make it work! :banghead:
I downloaded KarunaMk1.pof, and put it into the /models folder.
I fired FSO to see if I could finally beat WiH. I decided to restart the campaign to be more prepare for Delenda Est.
After some crashes, I loaded an RC 8 debug build 'cause I couldn't even load the introduction mission.
I had the Diomedes old table/new model glitch. I fixed that. But then the debug build said two textures where missing: altan_orde-trans and uefeagle2-trans. So I went into bp2-visual1.vp, extracted altan_orde.dds and eaglelogo.dds, made a copy of those, renamed them altan_orde-trans.dds and uefeagle2-trans.dds and put them in the /maps folder.
Next I realize the pof had no MOI, so I copy the MOI values from the old KarunaMk1.pof.
Now I am perfectly capable of loading the introduction without debug saying anything but the Karuna's rotator isn't rotating.
Not even in the F3 lab. It's not a game-breaking thing, but it's annoying. :sigh:
Maybe I should just delete everything, redownload it and start from skratch just to be sure, but I wanted to see if there's another option.
PS: How should I upload a .log file? the posting system tells me I'll surpass the 5k characters limit if I pasted in my post
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This is nuts, we really have to do an official patch.
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Use a pastebin, like... well, pastebin (http://pastebin.com/) to post the log without clogging up the forums.
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Thanks, here's the log (http://pastebin.com/gwUxrQL8)
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The Karuna is angry because you made it get a makeover instead of loving it the way it was. So now it's getting back at us by being really passive-aggressive.
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I am working on Delenda Est right now and it feels a little ****ed up. Could anyone who's played it recently tell me on what difficulty setting and how it went for them? I'm specifically interested in the health levels of the frigates, and in whether you were able to take out the whole Carthage screen before the Katana and AO jumped in.
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Just as an addition: the final stage where the second line of frigates is engaging the Carthage seems to have been made playable again.
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I played it with the original fix model from this thread on Medium. The mission went normally until I couldn't dock with the Indus at the end. If I remember correctly, Katana and AO were about 30 average, and I am not a great player. Not that the mission is necessarily easy, since I've played it a bunch of times, but it is a lot closer to being balanced.
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I am working on Delenda Est right now and it feels a little ****ed up. Could anyone who's played it recently tell me on what difficulty setting and how it went for them? I'm specifically interested in the health levels of the frigates, and in whether you were able to take out the whole Carthage screen before the Katana and AO jumped in.
Did it on Easy difficulty on .14 RC8, I basically had to resort to Beta 1 and 2 doing half of my dirty work on the second anti-corvette phase (on any build, I had to tell them, take out the forward beams on one of them as soon as the Carthage launches its second fighter screen, you gotta love plot immunity).
MUCH more playable now, and the Karunae didn't die as easily. However, there were one or two stray wings hanging around before the second strike package rolled in (earlier on RC5 and 6, I was able to scratch the whole air screen), making me fly near the Katana to get the harpooning Hercs off my back. Most of the frigates were able to get out with around 15 to 40%, and sometimes, I'm lucky to scratch one of the big ships of the Carthage's battlegroup, something I NEVER got to pull off earlier. The corvettes still spat out VERY rapid flak (the ROF was much more than any other mod I've played or stock FS2 on Easy/Medium), which made even Very Easy somewhat unbearable at times.
Overall, it still felt too much like having to rely on pure memorization. Probably because I've played the mission about forty times and wasted three weeks trying to get it right (six times, I got it, but the game crashed on me, before I found a workaround).
edit: one time when the Imperieuse jumped in (is there a stop-engine function for the player when that happens or something?), I got stuck in the Altan Orde and couldn't get out.
I played it with the original fix model from this thread on Medium. The mission went normally until I couldn't dock with the Indus at the end.
Yeah, previously, you could get in the Karuna's fighterbay and see it (door, docking clamps, landing control interior). Now it looks like they closed it with a bay door.
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Not sure if this is still helpful or not, but having used this model quite a bit, I can confirm that the rotator subsystem does not rotate--though I think it *can* be made to with a specific FRED SEXP in-mission (or repeating the SEXP? can't remember).
The figherbay is also closed/blocked; in order to dock with the Indus at the end of The Plunder, I had to fly around the ship's outside to scrape against the closest part of the hull's exterior to the fighterbay subsystem. I could not get close enough, at any angle, by flying down the center/nose of the Karuna like normal. In the POF file, for SpecialPoints, most of the subsystems aren't even there. The fighterbay is absent, along with engines (and others), but curiously there are two new reactor Special Points (top-center of engine section of ship, bottom-center too).
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You were using the latest fix version that Aesaar posted? It should resolve those issues.
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SaltyWaffles is correct. Mine was based off the one previously in the first post, and having actually checked the data for it (only looked at subobject radius before) I can confirm that the rotator doesn't spin. The fighterbay entry issue is because there's an actual wall blocking entry to the internal hangar on the model itself (subobject fbdoora). The fighterbay and other subsystems aren't in the special points list because it's the subobjects themselves that work as subsystems.
Oh, this model really, really hates us. I'll see if I can fix this.
EDIT: Done. Deleted door subobject and removed $name=Centrifuge from rotatora subobject properties, which prevented it from spinning. New download here (http://www.mediafire.com/?zlispd0672j184q). I don't have time to play a mission, but I'd appreciate it if people could check that all works as intended.
EDIT2: use link in first post.
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Using the POF linked in the first post, I have no glowpoints or nameplates on any Karuna.
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Eurgh. You are using the version currently linked, right? I changed it earlier today because this damn cursed POF eludes all attempts to fix it.
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And lo, Aesaar descended from the mountain, and declared: "Oh for ****'s sake." And for days, he grappled with the Karuna, but for every problem he fixed, a new one grew in its place!
New, more fixed version. (http://www.mediafire.com/?7mxxtunfj37r1wr)
Glowpoints and nameplate should now work (edit: nope!). Cause of problems: glowpoint radii set to 0, misnamed nameplate texture (edit: no, it turns out it's worse than that)
EDIT: use link in first post.
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Glowpoints yay, nameplates nay.
Nameplates don't show up with the latest linked POF. Seems like the texture replacement feature doesn't like you adding the -trans suffix to the nameplate and uefeagle textures. If I remove the -trans, the nameplates show up, but it makes the whole nameplate around the text a see-trough whole in the ship.
Or do I need to us a specific build? I'm currently using 3.6.14 RC2
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EDIT: Wait, yes I do. I think that when someone was rigging the original pof, they didn't set up the parent relationship properly. If that's the case, it's out of my hands.
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Glowpoints yay, nameplates nay.
Well, it's not a very elegant solution, but it works:
But then the debug build said two textures where missing: altan_orde-trans and uefeagle2-trans. So I went into bp2-visual1.vp, extracted altan_orde.dds and eaglelogo.dds, made a copy of those, renamed them altan_orde-trans.dds and uefeagle2-trans.dds and put them in the /maps folder.
And the centrifuge is rotating again, thanks Aessar!
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i should probably change the "FIX" in the topic to "bug exchange"
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But then the debug build said two textures where missing: altan_orde-trans and uefeagle2-trans. So I went into bp2-visual1.vp, extracted altan_orde.dds and eaglelogo.dds, made a copy of those, renamed them altan_orde-trans.dds and uefeagle2-trans.dds and put them in the /maps folder.
And do the name plates show up ingame for you? I tried this, but still no luck.
A debug build is complaining that it cannot find "nameplate-trans". If I put a dummy file with that name in the maps folder, the message doesn't pop up, but still no nameplates are working. I guess the texture replacement in FRED is specifically referencing the nameplate textures without the -trans suffix.
But strangely, it's working with the eagle logo... I don't understand what's different with that?
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But then the debug build said two textures where missing: altan_orde-trans and uefeagle2-trans. So I went into bp2-visual1.vp, extracted altan_orde.dds and eaglelogo.dds, made a copy of those, renamed them altan_orde-trans.dds and uefeagle2-trans.dds and put them in the /maps folder.
And do the name plates show up ingame for you? I tried this, but still no luck.
A debug build is complaining that it cannot find "nameplate-trans". If I put a dummy file with that name in the maps folder, the message doesn't pop up, but still no nameplates are working. I guess the texture replacement in FRED is specifically referencing the nameplate textures without the -trans suffix.
But strangely, it's working with the eagle logo... I don't understand what's different with that?
That used to work, but now that you mention it I looked at it and it doesn't work anymore. The last pof has the nameplate texture's name changed. To remedy this, take eaglelogo.dds, make a copy, change name to nameplate-trans.dds and it will work.
EDIT: the original textures didn't have the -trans part in the names, so the nameplates won't work without a new texture file (that's why I extracted them from the vp and changed the names manually). You can't solve it by editing the pof AFAIK.
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I'm pretty certain the problem is with the way the model hierarchy is set up. If it was set up properly, the -trans suffix for the texture wouldn't be necessary, and removing it wouldn't make a hole. Specifically, the problem is that the nameplate subobject is just called "nameplates". It should have been called "detail0-trans" before importing to PCS2. Renaming after import doesn't work.
AFAIK, it isn't a problem that can be resolved in PCS2, and I'm not about to convert the model back to .dae, re-rig it , and rebuild the .pof unless the team asks me to. I'm told they have a working version anyway.
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can we please have it
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Yeah I think so, if I had SVN access I'd post it.
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How in god's name do you not have SVN access.
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Having svn access at home does not mean one has svn access at work.
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I've uploaded the current svn version that should have everything working.
http://www.mediafire.com/?5jodr4hc86dhekr
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How in god's name do you not have SVN access.
I'm spending the weekend at a friend's place.
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I've uploaded the current svn version that should have everything working.
http://www.mediafire.com/?5jodr4hc86dhekr
Thanks :) I take it, this POF is meant for more recent builds which support deferred lighting? Because there is more data in the properties field, like this:
$glow_texture=red_glow;$glow_radius_multi=25.0;$glow_color=255,47,47
3.6.14 RC builds don't seem to like this, and show no glowpoints instead.
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Ah, yes...please use recent builds if you can.
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Darius: 1) Many thanks for the fix.
2) There's more recent than 3.6.14 RC9?
If it isn't too much trouble, could you release the build the team is using (and the shaders files)? :)
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Actually, I hear glowpoint properties are going to be tabled.
I'll go through and take out the extra glowpoint properties.
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Yes, Valathil is trying to get glowpoint lighting in tables instead of .pof files.
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Here you go
http://www.mediafire.com/?tzyzg91iyjanj5a
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Darius:
That model doesn't have a fighter bay--am I confused or is that an actual error?
EDIT: I mean physically; it has the subsystem and--thankfully--in a place you can actually reach/get to. If it was done for optimization/performance reasons, I've no complaints. Just curious.
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There's just a door in the way.
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There's just a door in the way.
Is that intentional? And inside/past the door, there is other detail/geometry missing from the figherbay that was there in previous versions.
EDIT: Okay, did the nameplate/eagle texture extract and copy trick, and it seems to be working well again...except one thing has me worried. I played Collateral Damage with the updated model, and this time the Akula was destroyed well before the Regensburg and Cardinal were driven off by the Ranvir. Is it killing itself with its torps again?
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Most of the subobjects have a radius of 0 or close to that, which is what's causing the issue. Open up KarunaMk1.pof in PCS2, select each subobject, and reset max radius.
EDIT: I've taken the liberty of uploading a fixed version. (http://www.mediafire.com/?uutchvddeak11qz)
Oh CRAP. That file was deleted. Uhhhh... help?
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Use the link in the first post.
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Yeah, the currently-linked model is the fixed one the team are using for WiH2 development.
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Recently did a casual playthrough of DE with the current model, and the Katana and AO (especially the Katana) seem to die awfully quickly, even when beam cannons are promptly disabled. I'll do a closer look soon, but just thought I'd see if it was just me...
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No, I don't think it is. I gave them some extra armor on SVN. They seem to get really chewed up by flak baths/fusion mortars.
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No, I don't think it is. I gave them some extra armor on SVN. They seem to get really chewed up by flak baths/fusion mortars.
I thought flak does minimal damage to ships with BP's Heavy Armor? For the fusion mortars--aren't there only two Leviathan's in DE? One of which is (IIRC) slightly behind the Carthage, to boot. With only a 2000 meter range and a100 m/s velocity, could it really be doing that much damage?
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No, I don't think it is. I gave them some extra armor on SVN. They seem to get really chewed up by flak baths/fusion mortars.
I thought flak does minimal damage to ships with BP's Heavy Armor? For the fusion mortars--aren't there only two Leviathan's in DE? One of which is (IIRC) slightly behind the Carthage, to boot. With only a 2000 meter range and a 100 m/s velocity, could it really be doing that much damage?
I've seen the Systema get a reported kill on the Katana quite a bit even after the maddening disarming phase (when they say "push the attack!") then I get a "crap, we lost the Katana!" and had to start over from that about six times.
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No, I don't think it is. I gave them some extra armor on SVN. They seem to get really chewed up by flak baths/fusion mortars.
I thought flak does minimal damage to ships with BP's Heavy Armor? For the fusion mortars--aren't there only two Leviathan's in DE? One of which is (IIRC) slightly behind the Carthage, to boot. With only a 2000 meter range and a100 m/s velocity, could it really be doing that much damage?
Thanks for your thoughts, man, my empirical testing must have been completely deceiving me.
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No, I don't think it is. I gave them some extra armor on SVN. They seem to get really chewed up by flak baths/fusion mortars.
I thought flak does minimal damage to ships with BP's Heavy Armor? For the fusion mortars--aren't there only two Leviathan's in DE? One of which is (IIRC) slightly behind the Carthage, to boot. With only a 2000 meter range and a100 m/s velocity, could it really be doing that much damage?
Thanks for your thoughts, man, my empirical testing must have been completely deceiving me.
No...I'm sorry if I misconveyed my question, but I was asking how (based on your knowledge/empirical testing/experience) that outcome occurs in spite of the fusion mortar's range/speed/prevalence issues, along with the (possibly mistaken, so if I'm wrong by all means correct me, please) flak damage reduction to Heavy Armor. I wasn't trying to imply that it doesn't happen--just that I was confused as to how it actually does happen.
Also:
The UEF's worst nightmare: Bringing back the Fenris swarm, supported by kamikaze Atens. :D
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I'm pretty sure heavy armor has no special modifiers vs flak, it's just got a universal reduction on spawn weapon damage (like Slammer children).
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Think we can unpin this
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yeah probably