[garffenator]

I also just noticed that the stuttering also happens whenever a ship blows up.

[Yarn]

I ran the debug again, and it still crashed without letting me play

I think that crash (which is probably not a crash but a warning that you can ignore by clicking "no") was fixed in recent nightly builds.


One more thing to try is to turn on "Disable vertical sync" in the launcher under "Game Speed." This will likely cause screen tearing (which you may find irritating), but it may also prevent framerate drops.

EDIT: Actually, before you try disabling vertical sync, turn on "Preload mission game sounds" in the launcher under "Audio." It's possible that the slowdown is caused by the game loading sound effects during gameplay.

[garffenator]

Wow. Um...preloading the sounds didn't work. Neither did disabling vertical sync. In fact, disabling vertical sync made the stuttering even worse. So frustrating!  Any other suggestions? 
EDIT: I don't know what all the advanced settings options on the launcher do...maybe some of them could help?

[garffenator]

Perhaps I'm just doomed to not play Freespace 2, unless I'm willing to put up with the slowdowns.

[Arpit]

Try the Wireframe mode in Ship Lab(press F3 while in mainhall) and tell what FPS you get.

[Backslash]

Being doomed to not play Freespace 2 would be very sad.  I'm surprised though... I was running FSO on an integrated ATI 3100, which is supposed to be worse than yours.  And the slowdown seems to happen for only very specific things, from what you say.  Could be a bug, could be just the nature of your APU... suppose you could buy a video card and see if that helps, but I hate recommending that if we're not sure.  Is this a laptop?

There are a few other things you could try... in the in-game Options, on the Detail tab, could you try turning everything to Low and see what happens?  I don't mean for you to play this way, I'm just curious if it affects the problem, and if it does you could turn things on one by one and let us know what it turned out to be, and perhaps we could then narrow it down in code.

Unfortunately I don't know what all the advanced options in the launcher do either, but I suppose you don't have anything to lose... who knows, something in the Troubleshooting section might help.  Oh!  Longshot, but what happens if you 'Disable specular' under Graphics?  Damage lightning, explosions, warp, all those do involve lighting.  Hm.  Heh I almost wonder if we should be crazy and TRY a deferred lighting build.

[Arpit]

You could also try and get some information from here.

[garffenator]

Is this a laptop?

Yep.

I have turned on the detail to low before, but it's the same thing. Very awkward, because it runs the same with the MediaVPs activated. I was playing just now, actually, and I could live with occasional stuttering in order to enjoy the game, but it would be much nicer to play it super smooth.

Thanks for not giving up on the suggestions! However, pressing F3 in the main hall didn't do anything as far as displaying FPS or anything. Also, I'm not sure how to use those .7z files in the "Known drivers to avoid section," although if I figure out how, that might work. I'll try the "disable specular" and report back on Monday, too. And if that doesn't work...well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Worse case scenario, I play with a bit of random chopiness but still enjoy the game. 

[Arpit]

I now hope that you understand my words. 

More Ship Lab details

AMD Catalyst 11.5: Shows apparently random slowdowns. Confirmed on Radeon Mobile 5470, Crossfire'd 4870, 6850. Can be fixed by placing the atioglxx.dll from 11.4 in the FS2 directory.

I found this in the known drivers to avoid section and found it similar to your problem. Hence I suggested this. I don't actually have an AMD graphic card so Yarn can suggest much more better on this topic.

[Backslash]

Good info, Arpit, I hadn't seen that.  for reference, I think he just installed 13.4 drivers (and before, he had like 8.9 or something)... dunno how out-of-date that info is, but everything is still worth a try.

.7z files are opened by 7-zip -- it's free and very useful, also opens .rar files.

That's just really weird that the MediaVPs work just as well as without.  Definitely something weird going on.  Probably unrelated, but what virus scanner do you have?

Super longshot, but try a BP/deferred lighting build.  You may want to temporarily make a new pilot just for use with this build, cause it has a small chance of messing up your current one's campaign progress.

[Doko]

You should post full system specs.

- Have you tried an SSE build by any chance?

- Figure out if an antivirus is working on your PC.

- Post your full cmdline for fresspace open. In Wxlauncher go to advanced tab and copy paste the "current command line" box.


It really sounds like an antivirus choking the system when freespace loads animated textures.

[garffenator]

Thanks Arpit, although still nothing happens when I press F3 in the main hall. I don't know why I can't bring up the laboratory.
Also, thank you, Backslash. I'll try 7-zip and a deferred lighting build.
And Doko, I haven't tried an SSE build yet, but I will. Also, my antivirus program is Avast. It looks like Windows Firewall is running, too, and it asks for permission to run things the first time they're installed. And here's the cmdline:
C:\GOG Games\Freespace 2\fs2_open_3_6_18_NO-SSE.exe -mod Games/Freespace 2/MediaVPs_3612
Edit: I downloaded 7-zip, but I can't seem to get it to run. That makes it so I can't try the 11.4 file or the BP build. Also, the SSE build didn't make any difference.

[Yarn]

I downloaded 7-zip, but I can't seem to get it to run. That makes it so I can't try the 11.4 file or the BP build. Also, the SSE build didn't make any difference.

Is it the installer or the actual program that you can't run? And do you get a message when you try to run it? (If you do, post it here.)

Thanks Arpit, although still nothing happens when I press F3 in the main hall. I don't know why I can't bring up the laboratory.

With some laptops, you need to hold the Fn key to make the F keys perform their usual functions.

[Arpit]

And here's the cmdline:
C:\GOG Games\Freespace 2\fs2_open_3_6_18_NO-SSE.exe -mod Games/Freespace 2/MediaVPs_3612

I believe after seeing your previous debug logs (whoops I only saw what methods you had applied, not your debug log) you actually haven't disabled GLSL rendering. 
Of course I don't play on your computer so things might be different. 

So once again go under the Troubleshooting list in the Flags section and CHECK the box : Disable GLSL (shader) support
(I just suggested this method because I see only -window flag line is enabled and in-built  shaders are being USED. So I thought that you took disabling GLSL rendering as disabling specular, environment and normal maps. Not that I am correct always.)

[garffenator]

Is it the installer or the actual program that you can't run? And do you get a message when you try to run it? (If you do, post it here.)

Never mind, I got it to work this time. I clicked the wrong application icon last time. What is it that I do again? Put it in the Freespace 2 folder? I have a folder named GOG Games, and a folder within that called Freespace 2. However, I have a folder within the Freespace 2 folder called Games, in which I have ANOTHER Freespace 2 folder with lots of the FSO stuff.
EDIT: Okay, now it's really messed up. I managed to unzip the 11.4 file to the Freespace 2 folder (the one in the GOG Games folder), but when I put it there, it said that Windows encountered a problem and couldn't load the program. When I deleted the 7-zip file from the folder, FSO loaded, but at the sign in page, it said that it failed to save the pilot file and that I needed to free up disk space or something like that. I don't know WHAT'S going on there. 

With some laptops, you need to hold the Fn key to make the F keys perform their usual functions.

Thanks, it worked now.  The strangest thing happened when I went to the ship lab and clicked on various ships. I put it on wireframe like you said, and when I clicked on a new ship, the FPS almost always dropped to 23 or 30 or something around there and went back up to 60 after a second. Once the ship was up, the FPS would stay 60 until I loaded a different ship model. The bigger ships were especially slow.

And here's the cmdline:
C:\GOG Games\Freespace 2\fs2_open_3_6_18_NO-SSE.exe -mod Games/Freespace 2/MediaVPs_3612

I believe after seeing your previous debug logs (whoops I only saw what methods you had applied, not your debug log) you actually haven't disabled GLSL rendering. 
Of course I don't play on your computer so things might be different. 

So once again go under the Troubleshooting list in the Flags section and CHECK the box : Disable GLSL (shader) support
(I just suggested this method because I see only -window flag line is enabled and in-built  shaders are being USED. So I thought that you took disabling GLSL rendering as disabling specular, environment and normal maps. Not that I am correct always.)

Thanks Arpit. You were right--I didn't have Disable GLSL (shader) support on. I did check that box and then played, and that seemed to fix the stuttering when viewing damage lightning and engine exhaust. (It's sad, though, because the GLSL looks so pretty.  Any way that I could still use it?) However, there are still plenty of hiccups involved with other things, mainly ships warping in and some of the explosions.

I've especially noticed the slowdowns on the current level I'm playing, "The King's Gambit." A ton of ships are constantly warping in on this one, and therefore the chopiness is worse. I don't know if the audio is related, either, because the stuttering always goes on for only a few seconds when something warps in, but it's always accompanied by command or another pilot commenting on the development. Also, the music and dialogue on the mission briefings frequently have little hiccups/skipping as well.

My Avast antivirus also happened to be running a quick scan during one of the times I tried to load FSO, and it actually froze on a white screen for some reason and said it wasn't responding. Could be something to do with the antivirus, too, as some have suggested. So many variables!

[The E]

FSO will almost always enter an "unresponsive" state during mission load (Because the engine is too busy loading the assets it needs to check the OS message queue), this is nothing to worry about.

The strangest thing happened when I went to the ship lab and clicked on various ships. I put it on wireframe like you said, and when I clicked on a new ship, the FPS almost always dropped to 23 or 30 or something around there and went back up to 60 after a second. Once the ship was up, the FPS would stay 60 until I loaded a different ship model. The bigger ships were especially slow.

There's a very simple explanation for this. When you tell the engine to load a model, it has to load everything associated with it, all of the textures and the actual geometry, and then it has to upload that data to the graphics driver. Doing so takes time; and while it is happening, we're not actually rendering any frames. So the average framerate you see will drop.

One of the reasons why you're seeing such an extremely variable framerate under certain circumstances is because you're using a low-power GPU that has no dedicated memory, and as such has to share its bandwidth with the CPU, thus limiting its performance severely when new models or textures have to be added into a scene.

Finally, you really should use the SSE2 builds, as they will give you an appreciable performance boost.

[Arpit]

I've especially noticed the slowdowns on the current level I'm playing, "The King's Gambit." A ton of ships are constantly warping in on this one, and therefore the chopiness is worse. I don't know if the audio is related, either, because the stuttering always goes on for only a few seconds when something warps in, but it's always accompanied by command or another pilot commenting on the development. Also, the music and dialogue on the mission briefings frequently have little hiccups/skipping as well.

Try changing the preffered playback device from Generic Software on Speakers and Headphones (IDT High Definition Audio CODEC) to just Generic Software. (if you are using wxLauncher then it is under the Basic Settings tab or if you are using Launcher 5.5g then it is under the Audio tab) Although I don't have hopes that it will work. (just for hit-and-trial fixing)

Also check the flag Show frames per second on HUD (in the Dev Tool list) and report your FPS during the stuttering time in the same mission. Also as The E said, try an SSE2 build. Also if you are having problems in MediaVPs and not in retail, then remove MV-Advanced.vp if you have.

Finally attach your latest debug log.

[Yarn]

Try changing the preffered playback device from Generic Software on Speakers and Headphones (IDT High Definition Audio CODEC) to just Generic Software. (if you are using wxLauncher then it is under the Basic Settings tab or if you are using Launcher 5.5g then it is under the Audio tab) Although I don't have hopes that it will work. (just for hit-and-trial fixing)

"Generic Software on Speakers and Headphones (IDT High Definition Audio CODEC)" is "Generic Software." In Windows 7 at least, there are potentially multiple "Generic Software" options, and each one is labeled with what audio output it uses.


Garffenator:

If you have the time, I strongly recommend reinstalling FreeSpace 2. Do so by following this guide, and follow it to the letter. Just remember to get the SSE2 build (the first build in the release thread). If this again results in a Games\FreeSpace2 folder inside the first FreeSpace 2 folder, follow the instructions again more carefully.

Are you trying to put the 7-Zip program in the FreeSpace 2 folder? You're not supposed to do that! You need to run the installer (the file that you download from 7-zip.org) and let it install to the default location, not to the FreeSpace 2 folder.

Also, the 11.4 file is not compatible with the 7420G. Well, at least the 11.4 driver isn't (source).

Could you tell us the brand and model of your computer? This can help us find you an appropriate video driver.

[Backslash]

Super crazy longshot:  What happens if in the Launcher you Disable all sound and music, in the Audio tab?  or Use only 2d/stereo for sound effects, in the Experimental tab?

[garffenator]

Finally, you really should use the SSE2 builds, as they will give you an appreciable performance boost.

Garffenator:

If you have the time, I strongly recommend reinstalling FreeSpace 2. Do so by following this guide, and follow it to the letter. Just remember to get the SSE2 build (the first build in the release thread). If this again results in a Games\FreeSpace2 folder inside the first FreeSpace 2 folder, follow the instructions again more carefully.

Are you trying to put the 7-Zip program in the FreeSpace 2 folder? You're not supposed to do that! You need to run the installer (the file that you download from 7-zip.org) and let it install to the default location, not to the FreeSpace 2 folder.

Also, the 11.4 file is not compatible with the 7420G. Well, at least the 11.4 driver isn't (source).

Could you tell us the brand and model of your computer? This can help us find you an appropriate video driver.

Okay, I reinstalled it very carefully with the SSE2 build, but without the MediaVPs. The same slowdowns are still occurring, and while using the debug mode, I could see that the FPS is still suffering badly with that damage lightning. There is no longer another Games/Freespace 2 folder inside the first one.

Computer brand and model:

System Manufacturer   Hewlett-Packard
System Model   HP Pavilion g6 Notebook PC
System Type   x64-based PC
System SKU   C2N46UA#ABA
Processor   AMD A4-4300M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics, 2500 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)

Finally attach your latest debug log.

Attached.

EDIT:
Well, I'm at least very proud of myself for successfully installing FSO and the MediaVPs manually now.

Super crazy longshot:  What happens if in the Launcher you Disable all sound and music, in the Audio tab?  or Use only 2d/stereo for sound effects, in the Experimental tab?

I tried both suggestions, but nothing changed.

There's a very simple explanation for this. When you tell the engine to load a model, it has to load everything associated with it, all of the textures and the actual geometry, and then it has to upload that data to the graphics driver. Doing so takes time; and while it is happening, we're not actually rendering any frames. So the average framerate you see will drop.

One of the reasons why you're seeing such an extremely variable framerate under certain circumstances is because you're using a low-power GPU that has no dedicated memory, and as such has to share its bandwidth with the CPU, thus limiting its performance severely when new models or textures have to be added into a scene.

I've tested both the regular FSO (no MediaVPs) and with the MediaVPs using the debug mode, and the framerate seems to suffer a bit more with the MediaVPs than without (not surprising). Also, I tried both with the GLSL (shader) support disabled, which seemed to further help just a bit. However, even with no MediaVPs and the GLSL disabled, the framerate still drops considerably once the some enemy ships warp in and the combat gets intense with lots of lasers.

Could it be that my GPU is simply underpowered?  I hope Yarn's comment about finding a video driver for me can come true.

[attachment deleted by ninja]