Author Topic: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)  (Read 589043 times)

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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Do you really, really think that people will actually use the supreme almighty face tracking technology that has apparently never, ever been applied to anything commercial except Star Citizen (by the way, lol no) to interact? Do you really think the spastic nature of most players would even allow for it?

I think when it is integrated into the game so that it "just works" then a certain subset of playerbase will use it, and this subset will grow over the years until it is possibly a majority.

So you're saying Star Citizen is building tech now for hardware that might not even exist and possibly won't really be popular in a few years, and that's somehow a GOOD thing?


This is valid criticism. It really depends on whether this technology is just a side project of the face team that did not impede other development significantly or whether they are wasting resources and time on this cool but premature technology. Hard to say.
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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Pretty much nothing in SC "just works", so I wouldn't hold out too much hope for that.
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Offline Aesaar

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
maslo has it ever crossed your mind that the reason no other game has done facetracking may be that it's a bad idea?

Star Citizen is not every other game, I want them to push technological and gameplay boundaries. Id rather have them fail than release an average game, a mere rehash of what has always been done. So even if face tracking turns out to be a bad idea, I dont mind such attempts. But I dont think it will be a bad idea at the very least for VR.
Then you'd rather have them fail, because there's nothing Star Citizen is doing that hasn't already been done better by other games.  In no way is Star Citizen pushing technological or gameplay boundaries.  It's all incredibly derivative.

The narrative that the things Star Citizen is doing have never been done before is pushed by Chris Roberts, who is completely out of touch with the industry and doesn't know better.  Citizens lap it up for the same reason they can't see how this project is ****ed.  The core assumption every citizen makes is that Chris Roberts and CIG are right, and if reality disagrees, it's a lie parpetuated by Derek Smart.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 11:43:00 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
This is valid criticism.
Just like pretty much everything else said in this thread.
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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
maslo has it ever crossed your mind that the reason no other game has done facetracking may be that it's a bad idea?

Star Citizen is not every other game, I want them to push technological and gameplay boundaries. Id rather have them fail than release an average game, a mere rehash of what has always been done. So even if face tracking turns out to be a bad idea, I dont mind such attempts. But I dont think it will be a bad idea at the very least for VR.

so basically your standard for what CIG do with backer money is simply that it be new, even if it's incredibly dumb
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Offline Sushi

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
I actually agree with Maslo, up to a point... there's value in "pie in the sky" projects and trying to push the boundaries of tech and game design.

Where I think Star Citizen has gone off the rails is that it's trying to do too many of them at once. That's been the case from the start. An integrated first-person space sim with full freedom of movement inside a ship is innovation (and challenge) enough without piling every kitchen sink you can find on top of it.

 
Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
In other news I hear that No Man's Sky is actually a pretty good game now.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Also Kim Jong Un is a grounded reasonable individual.
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Offline Firesteel

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Where I think Star Citizen has gone off the rails is that it's trying to do too many of them at once. That's been the case from the start. An integrated first-person space sim with full freedom of movement inside a ship is innovation (and challenge) enough without piling every kitchen sink you can find on top of it.

Since I'm going back into academia, the realm of weird **** that most people will never hear about, there certainly is value in pushing the boundaries with what games are. That being said I wouldn't call Star Citizen innovative. We've had movement inside ships for a while (if someone can give me an example from before Mass Effect that would be great since I'm lazy) and yeah putting that with a tightly controlled space sim is ambitious, I wouldn't call it innovative just like how I wouldn't call Prey 2017 innovative even if it was a highly ambitious project that didn't quite reach everything it was shooting for.
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Offline Novachen

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Where I think Star Citizen has gone off the rails is that it's trying to do too many of them at once. That's been the case from the start. An integrated first-person space sim with full freedom of movement inside a ship is innovation (and challenge) enough without piling every kitchen sink you can find on top of it.

We've had movement inside ships for a while (if someone can give me an example from before Mass Effect that would be great since I'm lazy)

Parkan: The Imperial Chronicles... from 1997 :) That is atleast the oldest title i remember right away. So this feature is even older than Freespace itself :).

As i am speaking of Parkan... Star Citizen reminds me of Parkan 2 in some points. That was also way too overambitious... with things like "MORE THAN EVER BEFORE - Explore 500 hand crafted star systems!"
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 03:50:49 pm by Novachen »
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Offline Buckshee Rounds

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
I actually agree with Maslo, up to a point... there's value in "pie in the sky" projects and trying to push the boundaries of tech and game design.

Where I think Star Citizen has gone off the rails is that it's trying to do too many of them at once. That's been the case from the start. An integrated first-person space sim with full freedom of movement inside a ship is innovation (and challenge) enough without piling every kitchen sink you can find on top of it.

The original pitch was what hooked me from the beginning - your starfighter/spaceship w/e would move relative to where the actual thrusters were pointing and if an enemy blew off one of those thrusters then you'd lose the ability to move in the corresponding direction. It was a cool idea I thought and if they'd actually stuck to that plan we could have had a half decent spacesim in our hands years ago.

EDIT:

maslo has it ever crossed your mind that the reason no other game has done facetracking may be that it's a bad idea?

Star Citizen is not every other game, I want them to push technological and gameplay boundaries. Id rather have them fail than release an average game, a mere rehash of what has always been done. So even if face tracking turns out to be a bad idea, I dont mind such attempts. But I dont think it will be a bad idea at the very least for VR.
Then you'd rather have them fail, because there's nothing Star Citizen is doing that hasn't already been done better by other games.  In no way is Star Citizen pushing technological or gameplay boundaries.  It's all incredibly derivative.

The narrative that the things Star Citizen is doing have never been done before is pushed by Chris Roberts, who is completely out of touch with the industry and doesn't know better.  Citizens lap it up for the same reason they can't see how this project is ****ed.  The core assumption every citizen makes is that Chris Roberts and CIG are right, and if reality disagrees, it's a lie parpetuated by Derek Smart.

 :lol:

 
Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Plane sims have been doing those kinds of physics-based flight model for over a decade now. Hardcore flight simulators are also notoriously difficult to learn, having more of a learning cliff than a learning curve as even just staying in the air is difficult while landing is near-impossible for a new player.
But there's also a reason why less serious sims haven't picked up those mechanics, they simply don't belong. If you're not a super serious hardcore simulator then having physics based damage and flight models is just a massive waste of resources and unnecessary complexity that your more arcadey game doesn't benefit from at all.
SC's flight model was never all that complex but it had all that physics-based stuff jammed in there because it sounds cool on paper, practicality be damned!
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Offline Spoon

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Physics-based ramps.
Physics-based doors.
Physics-based nipple jets.
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
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[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Physics-based corpses.
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Anybody else thinking that facial tracking is going to interact with the physics system to give us some proper eldritch horrors in the near future?

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
5-6 years into the project:
https://twitter.com/SandiGardiner/status/905856718000840704
Still working on idle animations.

This is good for star citizen.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
We've had movement inside ships for a while (if someone can give me an example from before Mass Effect that would be great since I'm lazy)

I hope you are not implying Mass Effect had seamless movement inside ships like SC. In the words of Dr. Smart: its just a level. Similar thing applies to Parkan.

The closest example to SC walking in ships I can think of is Star Wars Galaxies.
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Offline Novachen

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
We've had movement inside ships for a while (if someone can give me an example from before Mass Effect that would be great since I'm lazy)

I hope you are not implying Mass Effect had seamless movement inside ships like SC. In the words of Dr. Smart: its just a level. Similar thing applies to Parkan.

Parkan did not have even loading screens within a star system... so what is the condition to be a "Level"?
Yeah, if you take it that way.. Parkan consists of big levels, one star system per once... but in there you where able to shoot through several ships without any loading times. At least in P2.

Yes, of course the interior of the bigger Star Citizen ships can be much more complex and bigger and i hope much more individual. But to say every ship was a level that was loaded individually... i would not take it that way... because it was generated when you fly near a ship. But in SC the interior of ships will also only be loaded into your memory if you near a ship... you will not have the whole game in your RAM when you launch it.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 03:21:23 am by Novachen »
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Offline 666maslo666

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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Parkan did not have even loading screens within a star system... so what is the condition to be a "Level"?

When you are walking on foot inside a ship, can you look out the window and see other nearby ships flying around, planets, effects of your own ship movement, etc?
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Re: Wing Commander 6: The Undiscovered Release Date (Star Citizen Thread)
Games with seamless ship interior/exterior transits?

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