Author Topic: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)  (Read 13660 times)

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Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
All it thinks about is thinking about itself and everything it touches joins in because itself is very good at making things think about itself.

The Shivans are hostile to organized thought and hopefully immune.

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Isn't revealing the existence of interdimensional travel to the GTVA itself an unacceptable risk to the quarantine?

Battuta stated earlier that the Multiverse is running out of "the right type" of life to achieve the objectives of the terminal protocol. In addition, Shivans do exist in all universes, so no matter what, there is, literally, nowhere to run.

 

Offline DefCynodont119

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Is Ricardo the great darkness?


Is the BP multiverse infinite? then the multiverse should never run out of universes with life, or great darknesses, or anything else.
Doesn't that make the Shivans goals unattainable?

Or are there a limited number of universes? and if so, why?
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Is the BP multiverse infinite? then the multiverse should never run out of universes with life, or great darknesses, or anything else.
Doesn't that make the Shivans goals unattainable?

Or are there a limited number of universes? and if so, why?
There's a third possibility: the number of universes is infinite, but the number of universes containing usable life is finite.
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schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

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(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
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<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

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(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
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Offline PVD_Hope

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Is the BP multiverse infinite? then the multiverse should never run out of universes with life, or great darknesses, or anything else.
Doesn't that make the Shivans goals unattainable?

Or are there a limited number of universes? and if so, why?
There's a third possibility: the number of universes is infinite, but the number of universes containing usable life is finite.

So there are infinitely more lifeless universes than universes with usable life?
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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Only universes containing Shivans or something equivalent to prevent intelligent life from developing into metastatic think-about-me’s haven’t been amputated. But the remaining universes are running out of viable candidates for... and this is where I run into a wall. Candidates for what?

It has been said that the universe is a divirsity engine. But how does that tie into Shivan imperatives? They are hostile to high level cognition. Easiest way to eliminate that is to eliminate life entirely.

The Vishnans want us to become “enlightened” so we can be uploaded to the Great Psyche. What do the Shivans want that is within our power to give them?
"Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day to day living that wears you out." – Anton Chekhov

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Perhaps BP's multiverse is infinite, but there's a certain number of universes "closest" to our one that Vishnans can realistically interact with, and beyond that they just don't have the abilities to? If that would be true, perhaps Vishnan Summed Psyche thingy is actually anchored to one of universes near our one, and they just can't extend themselves away from it further than that certain amount of universes?
Excuse me for any spelling errors I make - I'm still learning English :P

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
I don’t think that’s it. We’ve been told that the Vishnans can pass between universes. May have even been told that they exist in subspace in the walls between universes, but I can’t be sure I’m remembering that correctly.

The Shivans don’t. They are ubiquitous in all universes that are still of concern. Impression I have isn’t that they exist across universes so much as they are a prerequisite of all universes that are capable of supporting intelligence of the kind the Vishnans are interested in.

What I don’t get is what stays the Shivans’ hands from just wiping out all life everywhere and be done with it. Advanced cognition, if left untamed, accelerates towards becoming pathologically self-referential. So why hold back? What do they want? What do THEY get out of this relationship with the Vishnans?
"Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day to day living that wears you out." – Anton Chekhov

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
They're bound by the Protocol but not happily (as we see in AoA).

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
They get nothing. The Shivans were forced into the position they exist on by the precursor to the Great Darkness (Brahmans). An ego, forced the egoless to submit. There is no answer to the problem.

BP has a dualistic system: Thoughtless or Thoughtful.

If you are thoughtless, you have no ego.

If you have thoughts, you do, and inevitably drift towards it. Your Ego has an event horizon to which you grow closer and closer by living. Once you cross it, you are in an inescapable great darkness.

Here come the Shivans. By removing things that become the darkness, you allow other life, Non-Shivan life, to have a chance. But, inevitably, they will become a great darkness too, and so they must be removed, so that life other than them can live.

The Vishnans are an attempt at circumventing the system. And that is why they will never win. They are aiming for a 2 when the only possibilities are 0 and 1. Or if I had to put it another way, Trying to be Shivan while they are the anti-thesis of them. The only middle "solution" is apathy, which we have already seen, they are incapable of fulfilling.

Life in BP's universe is damned, it can only inevitably become its own end.


Sorry if come of as rambling, I really should be sleeping at this hour.

 

Offline PVD_Hope

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Life in BP's universe is damned, it can only inevitably become its own end.

So... the BP story is ultimately pointless?

Thorough? Sure. Complex? Sure.

But in the end, there's no point?
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Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
I think that's an oversimplification. "Endless cognitive growth is at least in certain cases disastrous" is more true, much like "burning increasing amount of fossil fuels is disastrous."

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Maybe I missed it, but what makes the Vishnans immune to pathological recursive cogitation?
"Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day to day living that wears you out." – Anton Chekhov

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
They're quarantined from the infected ruin of the Brahman noosphere and they aren't trying to attempt it themselves (nor do they have NEARLY the scale and unity of thought the Brahman did). From the beginning the Vishnans have been trying to find an inheritor for the Brahmans of old.

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Are the Vishnans inherently unable to reach that level of cognition, or is that restriction self imposed as part of the Terminal Protocol?

Why is finding an inheritor to the Brahmans desirable?
"Any idiot can face a crisis; it is this day to day living that wears you out." – Anton Chekhov

 

Offline Cyborg17

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
I feel like after that "rambling" post I finally understand BP.

 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
I disagree with claims that its pointless if we will eventually die.  If you delay the destruction of the species for say 200 years, thats still totally worth it and is valuable.  Existing on into infinity is certainly desirable, but just because it has infinite value doesn't mean that anything else must have 0 value.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 12:25:07 am by QuakeIV »

 

Offline An4ximandros

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Existing for existence's sake is pointless. The longer we remain, the likelihood of becoming a great darkness approaches one. What should matter is not having more time, but how we spend the time we do have.

Quote
Spoiler:
Everything dies. Even humanity, Laporte supposes. Maybe how you live should count for more than how long you last.

EDIT: OFF-TOPIC: Didn't expect to find this.

 
Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 10:22:48 am by Mammothtank »

 

Offline QuakeIV

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Re: The Blue Planet Oracle (full BP2/3 spoilers within!)
Oh hey, batts has a wiki page.

e: Also, isnt existence for existence' sake supposed to be the driving purpose behind us and everything else alive on this planet?