Author Topic: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version  (Read 213101 times)

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Offline chief1983

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Just a side thought, the fenris normal map seems a bit heavy to me, especially on that rear section in those screenshots.  Still pretty though, I just don't think it's realistic enough.
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Offline ION3

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
I think the fenris was PERECT as it was in 3_6_9.

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Error: mv_strings-lcl.tbm is corrupt
File: localize.cpp
Line: 611

Ah I see, you need the hotfix for german version:
http://www.game-warden.com/starfox/Non_SF_related_stuff/MVP3610BETA/MV_3610_german_hotfix.rar


with the 369 exe it works.

Ok... that is surprising... It should have the same problem.


Are you the guy to confirm this kind of stuff?

I am not a coder and can not even write a single shader, but I do know a bit about gfx cards and how shaders work. And I am pretty sure that you cannot use a have a model that is light by a sun per shader, while all the other lights on it are rendered in a fixed-function pipeline.


That's exactly what I proposed, that only the sun is used that way.

Well, it already is... but only with shaders. (SM3.0 shaders)


As Taylor said the problem is the shader length and i think the shader shouldn't grow that much if only the sun is used? And in the techroom the amount of lights shouldn't be a problem.

What you are talking about is exactly what is in the shaders. With the SM3.0 shaders there is only one light source used as per-pixel light.
So there is not shorter solution for SM2.0 cards unless you even kill that last per-pixel light, which would essentially also kill normal mapping.

By the way is this real phong lighting now?

I think so. Phong or blinn.


How? Your strange grayscale normalmaps don't work in Blender. What kind of normal map is that anyway? Which tools do I need?

I need "blue" normal maps for Blender I guess. Freespace 2 uses the compressed "grey" normal maps. The format is called DXT5NM.
To create normal maps you  can either use Blender, or use a 2d software in combination with Crazybump.

You can also import models (*.obj) in Crazybump and take a look at them with normal maps (again, the blue ones here). Parallax Mapping however requires a SM 3.0 card. So you can't test your height maps for our models.

Will normalmaps work in software mode?

I don't know if the software mode is even supported anymore. You probably mean the fixed-function pipeline (somewhat the equivalent of D3D7, with T&L rendering).
No normal mapping only works with shaders.

It would require the use of uncompressed maps. High-End cards wouldn't have a problem with that, but they can use the better SM 3.0 rendering anyway.  So only already outdated card would have to use the uncompressed maps, which cannot manage them -> no sense.

@Cobra Ra?... I never made maps for the Ra. The Knossos maps are included.

@ARSPR Thanks again. I guess I'll have to take a look at the nameplats again;)
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Offline DaBrain

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Just a side thought, the fenris normal map seems a bit heavy to me, especially on that rear section in those screenshots.  Still pretty though, I just don't think it's realistic enough.

Ignore it. It's just an experiment.

You can see I didn't redo the normal maps for it from the scratch. I will do so, later.

However, using the 1028T build, I get occasional very slight pauses.  They're less than a second and appear to be early in missions when things enter for the first time, so I guess my settings are just not pre-loading textures.  I've got an 8800GT so I doubt it's my hardware. :)

I also got a 8800 GT and have the same problem.
But we are not alone:
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,51223.0.html

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Offline Cobra

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
The Knossos maps are included.

I didn't see any of the pretty stuff I saw in the screenshots.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline taylor

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Hey I've just noticed this issue with nameplate.dds.

Because of transparency handling, this texture is sometimes slightly visible. As current texture has "GTD Orion" it can be a bit confusing. See Nameplate-Original.jpg.
I never did test it fully, but I think that you can fix it with a simple spec map that doesn't reflect anything.  I only did a quick test with it though, so I can't be sure that it actually fixed it properly.

The difference is just in how it's handled with shaders.  The shader has a couple of tricks in it to blend light and env on transparent textures (for cockpits) but this obviously causes a problem on things like the nameplates.  Besides using a spec map I haven't figured out any way around this so far.

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Just a side thought, the fenris normal map seems a bit heavy to me, especially on that rear section in those screenshots.  Still pretty though, I just don't think it's realistic enough.

Ignore it. It's just an experiment.

Will do.  Thanks for all the hard work.  This is really the biggest thing motivating me to build a new pc to replace my aging 5 year old beast.  Although I was hoping to get 1 or 2 8800 GTs, so I hope any issues with it can be ironed out, either on nvidia's or our end.
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Offline DaBrain

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
I didn't see any of the pretty stuff I saw in the screenshots.

Well... did you follow the installation instuctions? Removed all old VPs?
Do shaders work for you, cause I didn't update the maps, I just added normal maps



@chief1983
You don't relly need a SLI killer machine though. I can max out everything use all image quality imrovement features my card offers, but I still get 60 fps with my 8800 GT.

I won't stop you from buying it though. You might need it in the future. ;)
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Offline ION3

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Quote
The problem is with the lights.  All of our lights are dynamic, and we need at least 8 of them.  In order to support 8 lights though the shaders become too big to work within SM2.0 limits, meaning that it could only support 3 or 4 lights, depending on the exact shader.  That simply isn't enough to work well, since it would be very noticeable in-game.

Sounds like it wouldn't be a problem in the techroom.
Ingame it can't be achieved since you can't use a mix of the old and new versions I believe?

Quote
Ah I see, you need the hotfix for german version:

Ah works now.
I have a new problem:
See pictures.
The green - yellow mix one is mvp 3_6_10b fso 3_6_10-20071028T.exe
The yellow one is mvp 3_6_10b fso 3_6_9.exe
where are the muzzle flashes from the opening screen?

Quote
I don't know if the software mode is even supported anymore. You probably mean the fixed-function pipeline
There's a button in my launcher 5.5a that says software mode.




[attachment deleted by ninja]

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Oh yeah, I know SLI would probably be overkill for FSO at the moment, but I play a lot of other stuff.  Wouldn't mind finally being able to run SupComm in Dual monitor mode at uber fps, or World in Conflict, or HL2 Ep 2, etc.
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Offline taylor

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Quote
The problem is with the lights.  All of our lights are dynamic, and we need at least 8 of them.  In order to support 8 lights though the shaders become too big to work within SM2.0 limits, meaning that it could only support 3 or 4 lights, depending on the exact shader.  That simply isn't enough to work well, since it would be very noticeable in-game.
Sounds like it wouldn't be a problem in the techroom.
Ingame it can't be achieved since you can't use a mix of the old and new versions I believe?
The shaders either support all of the lights or they don't, there is no half way with it.  You can modify the shaders yourself to support only 3-4 lights if you want, but the official ones will be SM3.0 only, and the current code actually checks that you are SM3.0 capable before it will even try to enable shaders.

And you can mix the programmable and fixed rendering, but it doesn't resolve the performance problem, and it looks like total crap.

 

Offline ARSPR

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Hey I've just noticed this issue with nameplate.dds.

Because of transparency handling, this texture is sometimes slightly visible. As current texture has "GTD Orion" it can be a bit confusing. See Nameplate-Original.jpg.
I never did test it fully, but I think that you can fix it with a simple spec map that doesn't reflect anything.  I only did a quick test with it though, so I can't be sure that it actually fixed it properly.

The difference is just in how it's handled with shaders.  The shader has a couple of tricks in it to blend light and env on transparent textures (for cockpits) but this obviously causes a problem on things like the nameplates.  Besides using a spec map I haven't figured out any way around this so far.
The problem is that a nameplate-shine.dds will also be noticeable over the several different WhateverShip-shine.dds maps.

So, Taylor, is there any real problem if we just don't have nameplate.dds? As a missing texture, it isn't rendered at all and then it's really fully transparent  ;) But as I posted I don't know if this could lead to other problems I cannot guess...
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 12:36:33 am by ARSPR »
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Offline Cobra

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Oh wait, DaB, you're right. That wasn't the Ra, that was the Scarab. But can you do the Ra? :nervous:
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline MetalDestroyer

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
@chief1983
You don't relly need a SLI killer machine though. I can max out everything use all image quality imrovement features my card offers, but I still get 60 fps with my 8800 GT.

I won't stop you from buying it though. You might need it in the future. ;)

If you're stuck at 60 fps It's because you setup your screen refresh rate to 60 Hz. And LCD screen didn't do more than 60 Hz. However if you use a CRT, the framerate will be higher since you can set the refresh rate to 75 Hz, 85 Hz and beyond depending on your CRT. So it's not your GPU which is limited.


 

Offline chief1983

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
I think he meant he never goes below 60, not he never gets above it.  And I think you can go higher if you disable V-Sync, not sure if you can always force that off though.  I think most driver control panels have an override for it.
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iamzack:  lays

 

Offline BlackDove

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
DaB, you mind putting the "updated XX.YY.NN" in brackets next to the media VP's you do modify? It's helpful to know to download only those that have changed, and the date they have changed ON. Easier on the hosts of the files too (like, I doubt I need to re-download the music vp every time you post "updated" at the top).
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 04:50:10 am by BlackDove »

 

Offline ION3

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
I don't want to annoy you so please tell me if I do.

Quote
The shaders either support all of the lights or they don't
Quote
And you can mix the programmable and fixed rendering

You seem to contradict yourself here?

My question about the techroom is still not answered.

 

Offline DaBrain

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
DaB, you mind putting the "updated XX.YY.NN" in brackets next to the media VP's you do modify? It's helpful to know to download only those that have changed, and the date they have changed ON. Easier on the hosts of the files too (like, I doubt I need to re-download the music vp every time you post "updated" at the top).

There won't be any updates to the files. There will only be some patches and when those work fine, I'll upload the final MediaVPs.
You will have to download all of them.

The MV_Music should also be new by then, otherwise I'll add note to the link.
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Offline BlackDove

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Nevermind then, thought you updated Core for some reason.

 

Offline wolf

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Re: RELEASE - MediaVP 3.6.10 Beta version
Quote
The shaders either support all of the lights or they don't
Quote
And you can mix the programmable and fixed rendering
You seem to contradict yourself here?
You can draw one model with fixed function pipeline and then another with shaders, but you can't use both in one draw call. To do so, you would need to do multipass rendering, which is not so good, as taylor already explained.