Hard Light Productions Forums
Archived Boards => The Apocalypse Project => The Archive => Archived The Apocalypse Project Threads => Topic started by: pecenipicek on September 27, 2012, 10:25:37 am
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Hello to all, i wish to start this thread off with an explanation of the current state of the project.
We are currently barely staffed, and need more active people.
We have a great story overall, we have tons of features needed to realise HW2 combat in the engine.
What we do not have is people to realise the whole.
We need fredders, modellers, texturers, effect artists.
Without these people we do not stand to make a release ever.
The project itself has stagnated over the past year due to total and utter lack of time and willpower to do anything significant, since i really dont have the wish to do it all on my own.
You might say "Some people made complete TC's on their own."
Well, yes, but those people also cut corner's in some areas or didnt have to do all that much work in some. (use of pre-made assets and such)
We need to create all assets from scratch. I am not sure what the legal stance on the whole thing is, but i personally believe that it is wrong to use assets from Homeworld 2, made by Relic.
Without that, there will be no release, ever.
So this is the last call for people, if you want TAP to survive and release, we need help. If you can table, fred, pof, script, you can help. If you can make models, you can help.
If we cannot get a few more people who will actively work on this mod, then i am sad to say that after a decade and some years of existing, TAP will close its doors, permanently, without any release.
I personally do not want for that to happen. I've been leading the project for almost 5 years now.
We've progressed a lot into actually having playable things, as opposed to the previous instances before i took over when what the project had was a lot of ideas and nothing ingame, at all.
I have invested tons of time into the project over the past 5 years, wether it was into modelling, tabling, fredding some simple, silly missions, scripting some things, so on and so forth. MatthTheGeek and The E have been invaluable over the past year in keeping me slightly sane and even willing to work on the mod anymore.
I have made some enemies over my time at HLP, i've recruited people into the project and booted people when they utterly failed to deliver anything.
I do not wish for this project to end. I want to see us release something worthy, something that will make peoples jaws drop. I do not want to release something that barely looks like a copy paste of ships from HW2 to FSO.
Thank you for reading, and if you wish to contribute to the mod in some way, post in this thread or contact me over forum PM's.
And please, if you are just starting modding, modelling, texturing, et cetera, do not apply. If you have modded other games, that is okay. I have been burned too many times by newbies not doing... well, anything, when asked to do something. Please do not be offended.
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I'd contribute, but I don't really have much to offer you at the moment :(
Hope TAP doesn't fizzle out and die.
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I'll be able to add some FREDding and perhaps tabling to my duties eventually, but I need to get more practice first.
(Yes I know I don't really do anything now)
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Unfortunately, I'm one of those "newbs" so I can offer naught but good wishes. :nod:
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Gah, I wish I had talent.
I wish you best of luck. Always nice to see another good project release on HLP.
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FRED is super easy to learn and get awesome at! Learn FRED, save TAP!
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FRED is super easy to learn and get awesome at! Learn FRED, save TAP!
I know FRED very well. But I've never finished (but have worked on a lot of) a mission other than the tutorial one, and have never even played Homeworld 2 before. xD
So I could be recruited for this, should it ever become desperate enough that you need someone who is inexperienced in both mission design and the Homeworld universe. I am naive enough to try, given encouragement. :P
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Pecenipicek, by not asking for newbies, you're pretty much asking the few, overworked "professionals" on HLP to step up. Your chances of that happening are pretty low since they've all got other projects.
Of course, I'm not sure newbie applies to me since I've done some modding of Sins of a Solar Empire through .entity file editing, but then again I've barely skimmed over maybe one table file so I'm not sure you'd want me for the position of plain-text-data-file-monkey. :lol:
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Of course, I'm not sure newbie applies to me since I've done some modding of Sins of a Solar Empire through .entity file editing,
I have great need to learn from you... Favorite game by far...
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Of course, I'm not sure newbie applies to me since I've done some modding of Sins of a Solar Empire through .entity file editing,
I have great need to learn from you... Favorite game by far...
Learn how I learned: acquire a copy of the .entity files in text format (not BIN format or you won't be able to edit them), set them up in the proper folder structure inside Sins' mod folder, then start adjusting the values of ships' .entity files in Notepad++. The first mod I made was a crappy "TEC autocannons have no visual cooldown" mod for 1.04 of original Sins, so start with something similarly small.
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Of course, I'm not sure newbie applies to me since I've done some modding of Sins of a Solar Empire through .entity file editing,
I have great need to learn from you... Favorite game by far...
Learn how I learned: acquire a copy of the .entity files in text format (not BIN format or you won't be able to edit them), set them up in the proper folder structure inside Sins' mod folder, then start adjusting the values of ships' .entity files in Notepad++. The first mod I made was a crappy "TEC autocannons have no visual cooldown" mod for 1.04 of original Sins, so start with something similarly small.
I'm buying your a lapdance next strip club
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I can do tabling for you. I've not got anything released but I've done plenty of work on tables and other table like things from other games.
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Just began molding FSO.
I can't even export 3ds Max models to pof. Once I am profecient,I will help.
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Here's what I suggest: Get stock HW2 ships ingame. The models are on the low poly side, but they're passable. Then FRED a short campaign. Get people interested again, and you can get more help with model HTL and FREDing for a longer campaign.
Even if we don't agree on the direction you're taking the models in, if you provide me with a list of the models you have ingame already, I'd be happy to pof some other ships from HW2 and build tables for them.
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With a project as ambitious as this one, it may help to try to squeeze out a smaller-scale attempt first, like a demo - I speculate that was an instrumental reason why the Wing Commander Saga project was successful.
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I can give no physical manifestation of assistance, but spiritually, I give you Blessing oh mighty one of the moddedness! Huzzah!
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Here's what I suggest: Get stock HW2 ships ingame. The models are on the low poly side, but they're passable. Then FRED a short campaign. Get people interested again, and you can get more help with model HTL and FREDing for a longer campaign.
Even if we don't agree on the direction you're taking the models in, if you provide me with a list of the models you have ingame already, I'd be happy to pof some other ships from HW2 and build tables for them.
we have stuff from HW2 ingame already. pofing is not a problem. creating new assets is, and no, there will not be a release in any way shape or form while we are still using relic's assets. This is non-negotiable.
If you want to help, we need models and textures mainly, but also, weapon effects, explosions, backgrounds and so on and so forth.
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If you want to help, we need models and textures mainly, but also, weapon effects, explosions, backgrounds and so on and so forth.
What kind of models do you need? Of all the HW2 ships?
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we have stuff from HW2 ingame already. pofing is not a problem. creating new assets is, and no, there will not be a release in any way shape or form while we are still using relic's assets. This is non-negotiable.
If you want to help, we need models and textures mainly, but also, weapon effects, explosions, backgrounds and so on and so forth.
I seriously doubt Relic cares about models from a 10 year old game published by a company that no longer exists. Hell, they didn't even care in 2004 when someone ported a Hiigaran Destroyer from HW2 into HW1 and made it available for download. Or the HW2 mods that port over HW1 models. Or PDS and Complex, mods that happily released modified HW2 .hods. If there's something those mods have shown, it's that Relic doesn't really care what people do with HW1/2 models as long as they aren't used commercially.
But alright, I doubt it matters, but it's your call (if you won't, I'll probably end up doing it myself). A list of the ships that needs new models would be appreciated. I've got very unfinished HTLs of the Hiigaran Battlecruiser, Destroyer, Carrier, Pulsar Gunship, and Interceptor, along with a few non-canon but recognisably Hiigaran ships. A few Taiidan ships as well. No Vaygr ones, though. After I'm done the Stratcomm ships, I'd be happy to get them completed for you. They might not be strictly canon as far as loadout goes, but that would be easily changed. They are built directly from HW2's models, however.
Weapon effects, I think public HLP assets are generally acceptable. BP's blue beams would work perfectly well for Ion cannons, for example. Same goes for explosions. Honestly, the one weapon I think poses a problem is the Pulsar. If there's one place you choose to use a Relic resource, make it this one, because it looks incredibly good.
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Pulsar has a problem of a different kind. The engine is currently incapable of exactly replicating the effect. For the rest, released assets should do (BP beams would not be a good choice for ion beams though, I'd use different bitmaps). Tracers could be taken from BTRL or Diaspora, and there's a really large amount of different explosions floating around. Backgrounds might be a bigger problem though, as HW always had an enormous amount of scenery porn, which needs to be remade in hi-res and with a new spin on it so it won't look ripped off.
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Forgot to ask, have you posted the mod on the Relic forums? If not, you're only going to get help from half of the people interested in this, I know the relic forums have much more modders around than here, might definitely be worth a shot.
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Wait what.
For all intents and purposes the HW part of Relicnews is dead. Was already dead 3 years ago when I quit, hasn't improved since. Saying they have more modders than here is like saying Luxembourg has more population than China.
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what matththegeek said. i was about to try going on relicnews and find some posts/threadsbut, then i gave up since they started using some newer vbulletin version which i cant bloody well stand nor even use properly...
as for the assets part, which part of "no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice" did you not understand dragon? unless you are about to start making new assets for us, please do not discuss "which assets would do, and which wouldnt"
also, while trying to get the ion beam effect made, i accidentaly made something that looked a fair bit more like the pulsar than the ion.
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"no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice"
If you don't want this mod to die, you don't have a choice. You won't recapture interest if you insist on remodelling the whole of HW2's ship list and creating all new effects before actually going somewhere.
I'll remind you that Requiem War tried what you're doing with the HW1 fleets (and just the fleets), and look where that mod is now. Do remember that RW's team included far better modellers/texturers than you or me, and worked when HW2 modding was at its height. This is not a criticism of you. A team the size of TAP's can only do so much.
Using Relic's models is no more wrong than using their universe, and this mod is not too good for FSO assets.
Pulsar has a problem of a different kind. The engine is currently incapable of exactly replicating the effect.
Curses, I was afraid of that. A shame.
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"no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice"
If you don't want this mod to die, you don't have a choice. You won't recapture interest if you insist on remodelling the whole of HW2's ship list and creating all new effects before actually going somewhere.
I'd say, let them persist in the delusion that they can make their own effects, they'll either make it or find that it's stalling the mod too much and use community stuff. It's not something that's usually holding mods up (UV mapping and modeling are more common culprits).
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Wait what.
For all intents and purposes the HW part of Relicnews is dead. Was already dead 3 years ago when I quit, hasn't improved since. Saying they have more modders than here is like saying Luxembourg has more population than China.
I'm talking more about the HW2 part of the forums which is still active IIRC.
what matththegeek said. i was about to try going on relicnews and find some posts/threadsbut, then i gave up since they started using some newer vbulletin version which i cant bloody well stand nor even use properly...
So your answer is no, that means you're missing an entire community that would be interested in this and that could help, even if you cant stand it the possible benefit of more people helping in this must still be worth it.
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There are one or two active projects on the Relicnews HW2 mod forums, HW@ probably being the best of them. Compared to its heyday 5-6 years ago, though, it's nothing.
It might be worth posting a release thread in the Gamer's Lounge if/when it happens, but the amount of progress TAP exhibits wouldn't get any more interest there than it does here. You'd actually need something substantial.
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Hum, do you guys still need TBL / TBM editors? I know I had asked to join in the past but I can't remember / can't find if you didn't want me* or just never got back to me. Please PM me if you are intrested.
* The tbl I submitted for weapons had an error where the Kinetic / Flechette Guns did all there dmg at once instead of over 3 shots. This lead to fighters being One-Shoted. I didn't realize this till like 2 months later how to fix it. Also At the time I didn't know about TBM's eather.
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So your answer is no, that means you're missing an entire community that would be interested in this and that could help, even if you cant stand it the possible benefit of more people helping in this must still be worth it.
I did make a topic there a while ago. I got exactly 0 replies. Yay for the interest of an entire community.
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Wait what.
For all intents and purposes the HW part of Relicnews is dead. Was already dead 3 years ago when I quit, hasn't improved since. Saying they have more modders than here is like saying Luxembourg has more population than China.
I'm talking more about the HW2 part of the forums which is still active IIRC.
what matththegeek said. i was about to try going on relicnews and find some posts/threadsbut, then i gave up since they started using some newer vbulletin version which i cant bloody well stand nor even use properly...
So your answer is no, that means you're missing an entire community that would be interested in this and that could help, even if you cant stand it the possible benefit of more people helping in this must still be worth it.
curse you half-written response! i actually meant to say that i did try making a few threads/posts over there over the past years, but there was very little response if any at all. and i couldnt be arse to trudge through the new interface to actually find those posts
(i'm retarded when it comes to xenforo/vbulletin's designs)
Also, Dragon, this is your first and last warning, be very careful about further noise you make from this point on.
I am sick and tired of you. You are one of the least productive members of this community and 90% of what you have contributed is "helpful" backseat moderation and modding without doing anything by yourself. I know not how the hell can you even dare to post anything here.
Hum, do you guys still need TBL / TBM editors? I know I had asked to join in the past but I can't remember / can't find if you didn't want me* or just never got back to me. Please PM me if you are intrested.
* The tbl I submitted for weapons had an error where the Kinetic / Flechette Guns did all there dmg at once instead of over 3 shots. This lead to fighters being One-Shoted. I didn't realize this till like 2 months later how to fix it. Also At the time I didn't know about TBM's eather.
And you wonder why we never got back to you? Please read the first post i this thread again. I do not want to teach team members and then have them leave for some other mod when they actually learn stuff in the engine.
Besides, as far as tabling goes we need a bit of balancing/fine tuning of combat.
"no, we are not going to use any FSO/anyone else's assets if we have a choice"
If you don't want this mod to die, you don't have a choice. You won't recapture interest if you insist on remodelling the whole of HW2's ship list and creating all new effects before actually going somewhere.
Yes, i can. And noone's talking about whole hw2's ship list at this point in time for the record :p
I'll remind you that Requiem War tried what you're doing with the HW1 fleets (and just the fleets), and look where that mod is now. Do remember that RW's team included far better modellers/texturers than you or me, and worked when HW2 modding was at its height. This is not a criticism of you. A team the size of TAP's can only do so much.
i have no idea about that mod as i had not followed or modded hw2 much, as this is Matth's area.
Using Relic's models is no more wrong than using their universe, and this mod is not too good for FSO assets.
If we were talking about a game which relic originally made and doing a mod for it, i'd be inclined to agree. as for the "too good for FSO assets" part, that is due to the fact that it would look a bit too generic and the fact that FSO effects have almost nothing in common with HW2's visuals. i'll point to the explosions for the first part :p
Pulsar has a problem of a different kind. The engine is currently incapable of exactly replicating the effect.
Curses, I was afraid of that. A shame.
What? What is so different with pulsars? Arent they just pulsed "short-ish" beams?
(note: when i convert model and effects, i observe them carefully in stock HW2 when recreating, but otherwise, i honestly havent used the pulsars that much. much more of a capship bugger here.)
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curse you half-written response! i actually meant to say that i did try making a few threads/posts over there over the past years, but there was very little response if any at all. and i couldnt be arse to trudge through the new interface to actually find those posts
Ah, ok then. Well, I'm pretty much out of ideas to help, sorry.
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Pulsar has a problem of a different kind. The engine is currently incapable of exactly replicating the effect.
Curses, I was afraid of that. A shame.
What? What is so different with pulsars? Arent they just pulsed "short-ish" beams?
They, along with Vaygyr lances, are a hybrid of sorts between beams and blobs. They hit once, but the beam "follows" the firing ship after that. They might be doable with beams, but they won't be a 100% recreation, and this won't be easy and require a new, animated effect. Any kind of beam hits multiple times per second, through it's entire duration, while a pulsar should hit once, but quickly fade away without doing further damage. Also, the muzzleflash is more elaborate than a simple beam glow, and beams can't currently have anything like that.
As for the little ad hominem, it's false. Just ask Darius, ShadowGorrath or anyone from Inferno. Or just look into credits of the latest AoA or WiH, or at the recent Inferno screenshots (EA ships, in particular). I'm doing somewhat less than I used to (and much less than I'd like to), but there are people who do less. I'm not doing big, noticeable things like models or textures (and the best of my normal map are not released yet), but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.
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And noone's talking about whole hw2's ship list at this point in time for the record :p
So I was told earlier today. My mistake.
i have no idea about that mod as i had not followed or modded hw2 much, as this is Matth's area.
Requiem War was a HW2 mod that tried to HTL all HW1 fleets and port them to HW2. It went on for 3 years and died very quietly. It was one of the better HW2 projects, and the ridiculously talented Enterprise-E (http://enterprise-e.deviantart.com/) was a large part of it.
If we were talking about a game which relic originally made and doing a mod for it, i'd be inclined to agree. as for the "too good for FSO assets" part, that is due to the fact that it would look a bit too generic and the fact that FSO effects have almost nothing in common with HW2's visuals. i'll point to the explosions for the first part :p
They're better than nothing, and better than the white clouds you're using for flak now (which, IMO, look terrible. No offense meant). They're just one more thing that isn't critical. You can't take the Diaspora approach with Homeworld because it just isn't as popular. I'd have thought this call for assistance would be proof of that.
On HW2's models: Relic has, to my knowledge, never, ever cared about people using their assets for non-commercial purposes. Especially not Homeworld. Moreover, using the HW2 models isn't very different from using the HW universe. They are, AFAIK, both copyright violations.
What? What is so different with pulsars? Arent they just pulsed "short-ish" beams?
(note: when i convert model and effects, i observe them carefully in stock HW2 when recreating, but otherwise, i honestly havent used the pulsars that much. much more of a capship bugger here.)
Pulsars and Vaygr lances look really unique because they look a lot like the muzzle flash extends all the way to the point of impact, and then dissipates in a rather unique way (as it dissipates, the beam gets more and more tenuous, if that makes sense. It doesn't just stop like FS beams do. I'm sure you've seen this). I had hoped it would be doable, because it looks awesome. Also, cool sound (par for the course with HW).
A last note: The point I've been trying to make over this whole situation is that I think your priorities (new models of the HW2 ships, as far as I can tell) are in the wrong place. I never meant to imply that creating a demo release was easy. I'll add that if I did not care what happened to this project, I would not bother with comments. :)
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As for the little ad hominem, it's false. Just ask Darius, ShadowGorrath or anyone from Inferno. Or just look into credits of the latest AoA or WiH, or at the recent Inferno screenshots (EA ships, in particular). I'm doing somewhat less than I used to (and much less than I'd like to), but there are people who do less. I'm not doing big, noticeable things like models or textures (and the best of my normal map are not released yet), but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.
You were hired as a texture guy on BP. But, as it turned out, you didn't know how to make proper textures at the time, so none of your work is actually used in BP. During your time at BP, your behaviour was characterized by a lot of requests to make assets in ways that were benefitial to you or your projects, not BP.
Actually, you know what? Now you made me properly angry. I am going to look at BP's svn log and tell you exactly which, if any, of your contributions are still in there. I can guarantee you that it's a short list.
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They, along with Vaygyr lances, are a hybrid of sorts between beams and blobs. They hit once, but the beam "follows" the firing ship after that.
All beams in HW2 do that, that's how the engine handle them. Not specific to pulse. In fact, even bullets do that.
Basically, the game has its own accuracy system where, if the randomizer decided it's going to hit, then it IS going to it, no matter what. Bullets will magically track their targets and so will beams.
And I can tell you pulsar beams are, for the engine, simply beams, like ion cannons and progenitor phased cannon arrays are.
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Yeah, I got a decent approximation going earlier by toying with beam duration, ShrinkFactor, and ShrinkPct. With the actual HW2 effect texture to replace the standard AAA ones, it would probably look just fine. Won't have the unique fade effect, but otherwise...
Provided beams work with muzzle effects that have an actual direction, rather than just circular ones.
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And you wonder why we never got back to you? Please read the first post i this thread again. I do not want to teach team members and then have them leave for some other mod when they actually learn stuff in the engine.
Besides, as far as tabling goes we need a bit of balancing/fine tuning of combat.
And you wonder why your mod is dying? There aren't many experienced modders and almost all of the active ones are tied down with their own projects. You can't afford to turn away help, although it doesn't seem like you can afford to remodel everything before any release either and that hasn't swayed you either.
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Actually, you know what? Now you made me properly angry. I am going to look at BP's svn log and tell you exactly which, if any, of your contributions are still in there. I can guarantee you that it's a short list.
Well, you're right on that one. My early stuff was crap. That's not saying I wasn't productive, but, well, I wasn't skilled. I actually Looked through the textures myself and the results are surprising (and frightening). More on PM, where all of this should've been anyway.
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I will say this, if you ask me or message me here, i can help with modelling all you want, with Poffing and with tabling anything ship related, be weapons, armors, the ship themselves, tables, etc etc, can help with audio too, but what i m afraid i cannot do reliably its to "Paint" ships, i m horrible as a UVmapper and texture artist, eitherway, if you want help i would love to model for TAP project given i LOVE HW1 more than HW1.
As for the little ad hominem, it's false. Just ask Darius, ShadowGorrath or anyone from Inferno. Or just look into credits of the latest AoA or WiH, or at the recent Inferno screenshots (EA ships, in particular). I'm doing somewhat less than I used to (and much less than I'd like to), but there are people who do less. I'm not doing big, noticeable things like models or textures (and the best of my normal map are not released yet), but that doesn't mean I'm not doing anything.
You were hired as a texture guy on BP. But, as it turned out, you didn't know how to make proper textures at the time, so none of your work is actually used in BP. During your time at BP, your behaviour was characterized by a lot of requests to make assets in ways that were benefitial to you or your projects, not BP.
Actually, you know what? Now you made me properly angry. I am going to look at BP's svn log and tell you exactly which, if any, of your contributions are still in there. I can guarantee you that it's a short list.
Woah... talk about rage, o,o now calm down guys and even tho i m a newb, can you guys please avoid derailing this topic? take your grudges somewhere else out of respect of the OP at least.
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I can help a little, but i have my hands almost full with my own campaign, it think it would be a nice training for my FREDing skills, ah and i am learnign Blender too of thats of some help. i can´t give my full compromise and time, but i can do something. i would hate to see this project to die if i can do at least something about it. :)
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@Pulsar: Why not make it like SSL? Invisible laser head, trail and PSpew? If you soom in a lot in HW, it actually kinda looks like that. Hits once, looks beamy enough.
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@Pulsar: Why not make it like SSL? Invisible laser head, trail and PSpew? If you soom in a lot in HW, it actually kinda looks like that. Hits once, looks beamy enough.
That's what I was thinking too.
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The only problem is, it'd stay in place it was fired from, which might not look quite right. Also, the effect would be hard to replicate with a trail.
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pecenipek, perhaps solcommand might help! He's a competent modeler, but I don't know if he's currently available... I'll try to get in touch with him again. hang in there!
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pecenipek, perhaps solcommand might help! He's a competent modeler, but I don't know if he's currently available... I'll try to get in touch with him again. hang in there!
are you talking about this guy? http://www.solcommand.com/
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That's right. He was on hlp too.
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worth a try.
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mail sent to solcommand. We'll see if anything happens. If not I'll contact a few other sources too!
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Thank you for trying :)
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News: I've got a maybe from solcommand (he hasn't been into modelling again for a while but agreed to take a look before deciding). I'll link him to the tap forums. Invertedvantage says likely he won't have time but I'll also send him a link. Hang in there!
how's the rest of recruitment doing?
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News: I've got a maybe from solcommand (he hasn't been into modelling again for a while but agreed to take a look before deciding). I'll link him to the tap forums.
kk :)
Invertedvantage says likely he won't have time but I'll also send him a link.
Isnt InvertedVantage = UnknownTarget here? just for the record :p
how's the rest of recruitment doing?
well, we got a quite decent fredder in, and there's a modeller in the "prove you know your stuff" area still.
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Hmm, unknown target? I had no idea! Sorry, that makes it redundent.
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I know that I'm totally necroing this thread, but I am particularly concerned as to the life/death status of this project. I can see that a significant amount of effort has gone into this, and it'd be a shame if it were to be lost to some mere interference. I trust that this is either in good hands, or at least was given a proper funeral?
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I know that I'm totally necroing this thread,
I sometimes wonder how people reach the conclusion that bumping a topic in a subforum dedicated to old and therefore archived threads that noone reads is a good idea, as opposed to posting in rather clearly named threads in the main board.
but I am particularly concerned as to the life/death status of this project. I can see that a significant amount of effort has gone into this, and it'd be a shame if it were to be lost to some mere interference. I trust that this is either in good hands, or at least was given a proper funeral?
The rest of this thread should answer your questions.