Author Topic: Physically-Based Rendering Builds  (Read 16626 times)

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Offline z64555

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Might be your screen contrast or something, for me the Artemis is clearly visible in the first shot but only shows up as a sliver of grey on the second.

I changed my contrast & brightness settings around but it didn't make any difference. Must be my eyes  :lol:

More seriously though, what's the point in having (parts of) a model you can't see?  After all FSO is a game, not a simulation engine.

I adjusted the gamma and it showed up clear as day, everything else is pretty much burning my eyes. :(

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Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Chiming in as someone who makes pixels: what does anyone lose by having the option of a pure black specular? Maybe there's a way to make it look cool, maybe not. It doesn't matter because the only decision to make code-side is whether the option is available, and unless there's some cost involved (which there doesn't seem to be), that decision should always err on the side of the option being available.

Yeah, the fact that you can somewhat see the model in the first screenshot and not the second is why most if not all modern PBR engines set 0.04 as the minimum specular reflectance value. Thanks for posting the example.

Maybe I'm interpreting the situation wrong, but if the limit didn't exist, the artist could decide whether to implement the limit themselves (by lightening dark pixels to #0A0A0A), or not. Why should the artist not be able to decide this?

 

Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
What we lose is the wasted time trying to teach artists that zero specular isn't physically plausible and the time spent troubleshooting why someone's gloss map isn't showing. All for the possibility of an effect no one really wants to use.

 
Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
If I'm reading this right there are plenty of everyday substances with reflectances of under 0.04. At least lower the minimum to 0.02 as suggested there. (And I would really like to know how 'physically implausible' the actual reflectance of vantablack is.)
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Offline Shivan Hunter

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Just because something isn't physically plausible doesn't mean the engine must hardcode the shader so it can never be rendered. As an artist that isn't an adequate reason to outright refuse to render something the way I define it. Not to mention that Phantom_Hoover already provided an example of a near-zero-specular material in reality, so the claim that it isn't "physically plausible" isn't even factual.

Helping new artists understand the PBR workflow is also not an adequate reason to impose a limitation on the engine, IMO. The responsibility to use the tools correctly is the artist's, and the existing documentation on PBR already hammers into people's heads that everything is shiny. I also don't really see many people trying to have a visible gloss map without a bright reflectance map - it's fairly intuitive that there needs to be something to reflect.

 

Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Okay I'll lower it to 0.02.

 

Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Material override colors are now gamma corrected so sRGB reference values found on various PBR references should give the correct results now. Uploaded new builds.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 02:39:07 am by Swifty »

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Sweet galloping gypsies. This made my eyes bleed as I beheld the awesomeness of the render Gods.

 

Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Sweet galloping gypsies. This made my eyes bleed as I beheld the awesomeness of the render Gods.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

Offline Talon 1024

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
My framerate in the tech lab is very smooth, but my framerate seems to drop to about 4-6 FPS during a mission if a ship model is visible. Is anyone else getting an awful performance hit, or am I doing something wrong?

EDIT: I've found that I don't get the performance hit if I use the -noenv flag.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2015, 07:12:06 pm by Talon 1024 »
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Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
what's your system specs?

 

Offline Talon 1024

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
System specs:
Windows 7 Home Premium 32-bit
Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 @2.93GHz
4 GB RAM
NVidia GeForce 9800 GT (512MB video memory)
To understand religion, you need to understand morality first. | WCSaga website | WCSaga Forum | 158th website | 158th forum | Project Leader: WC: Hostile Frontier | WCHF Thread at CIC | Wing Blender | Twist of Fate | Multipart turrets on angled surfaces, tutorial included. | My Google Drive stuff | To convert speeds from WC to WCS, multiply both the cruise speed and the Afterburner speed by 0.15625 (5/32)

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Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Turn off shadows and see how that runs. Then turn off deferred lighting if that doesn't work.

 

Offline Talon 1024

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
I already had shadows and deferred lighting, as well as sunshafts turned off. Speaking of which, have those features been optimized yet?
To understand religion, you need to understand morality first. | WCSaga website | WCSaga Forum | 158th website | 158th forum | Project Leader: WC: Hostile Frontier | WCHF Thread at CIC | Wing Blender | Twist of Fate | Multipart turrets on angled surfaces, tutorial included. | My Google Drive stuff | To convert speeds from WC to WCS, multiply both the cruise speed and the Afterburner speed by 0.15625 (5/32)

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Offline Swifty

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
There have been a lot of optimizations done to the renderer.

How well do you run the soft shadows and deferred lighting builds?

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=87121.0

 

Offline Talon 1024

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Using the FSPort mission "Eve of Destruction" and playing on AdmiralRalwood's April 8 builds, with the FSPort 3.5 MediaVPs 2014:
  • I get, at most, 60 FPS with both shadows and deferred lighting turned on. It drops to about 20-30 FPS when I get close to a ship, or when I get into a dogfight.
  • There doesn't seem to be a performance hit when I only have deferred lighting turned on.
  • The highest frame rate I get with only shadows enabled is 60 FPS. It drops to about 20-30 FPS when I get close to a ship, or in a dogfight.
To understand religion, you need to understand morality first. | WCSaga website | WCSaga Forum | 158th website | 158th forum | Project Leader: WC: Hostile Frontier | WCHF Thread at CIC | Wing Blender | Twist of Fate | Multipart turrets on angled surfaces, tutorial included. | My Google Drive stuff | To convert speeds from WC to WCS, multiply both the cruise speed and the Afterburner speed by 0.15625 (5/32)

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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
My shadow builds are not quite up-to-date with the latest changes to the shader_transform_deferred branch, but I don't believe the renderer has undergone significant changes since those builds were compiled, so that's probably still a good comparison.

* AdmiralRalwood starts compiling fresh shadow builds anyway

EDIT: Shadow builds have been updated, if you want to confirm that you get the same performance with the latest code.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 02:29:16 am by AdmiralRalwood »
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Offline fightermedic

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
so, finally got around to try this stuff, first off all, awesome work!
some observations:
i stand by my opinion, hdr bloom is looking awesome, but it is too strong! is there any way for modders to permanently adjust the value?

team colors behave strange, i can not even desrcribe it probably - but all my models look completely weird, as if the contrast on all the colors of the model would have been increased a looooot (and for some odd reason one model that did show them before is not showing team colors at all now, while all the rest still do... hmmmmm)
edit: i just had an idea... actually all my teamcolor maps have a lot of contrast, that was the way to make the dark areas actually look dark with the old rendering system, aparently stuff works completely different in that regard now  :shaking:

also, there is a problem with shine not being able to be 0 ( at least i think it has to do with that)
look at this screenshot and the super reflective (although supposed to be transparent!) shield!
(no reflective maps here for all my tests btw, just using the old shine maps)


[attachment deleted by nobody]
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 02:20:42 pm by fightermedic »
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Offline Zacam

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
So, I did a quick build based on current branch (checkout dated 2015/06/06) (after sorting out some MSVC missing entries, which I'll put in a push for once I've gotten them all) and noted an issue with nameplates:

1: There is (or should be) an Alpha fade that overlays that mutes it down to look like it's been properly painted on a ships hull instead of billboarding straight off it like there is no underlying hull.

2: The nameplate slot (and this may just be an F3 Lab issue, still have to test in-mission, but it's easier to position with the mouselight there) the standby texture (that usually gets replaced) will still "fluoresce" at angles. Being that this is the Lab isn't necessarily indicative of an actual issue (like other issues that happen: Turn off Post Processing for example, or check "Fixed Pipeline" for some other shenanigans)

3: On the truly dark side of a ship, it is so visible it looks like it is a neon sign.

Those are just off the top before I forget, I can do screenshots if you like. And after a brief post-work nap, I'll get in those MSVC entries so that others can build (in addition to the origin fixes that makes AVX builds actually use AVX).
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Offline Bryan See

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Re: Physically-Based Rendering Builds
Wonderful work, Swifty! :)

I hope that you'll integrate PBR into the current branch along with SSAO, but provided that all serious bugs (including CTD ones) are squashed.
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