[Cobra]

And yet the Apollo I have is unaffected, and in fact the non-PBR textures for the Leviathan also result in a black ship.

[DahBlount]

fightermedic, you do know -misc is specifically for team colors right? You've got -misc used as the base texture for all the greebling on the Leviathan. As for the build, can you tell me the exact date for it? Not all PBR ships are affected, seems to vary dependent upon a number of unidentified factors.

[fightermedic]

ah, yea, when i was talking about -misc right now i was only talking about teamcolors being messed up too in rescent nightlies,
the -misc textures in the leviathan are working as intented (in the old builds, in the rescent nightly they are having the same problem as all the other pbr textures), but the suffix -misc really isn't quite ideal for textures other than teamcolors, now that you mention it

so far i have only checked the problem with two PBR build numbers
the new fs2_open_3_7_5_20160927_d0600a6 is having all the problems
in the older fs2_open_3_7_5_SSE2_20160714_d28be15 everything is still working
no idea which build inbetween those broke it

[DahBlount]

Well, given that I know where to start now, I can figure it out via git bisect.

In the future, I'd say give the greeble textures a more apt name like levi-greebles or leviathan_2.

[fightermedic]

indeed, i just copied oddgrims name for the textures, without any brain activity involved that -misc might be not exactly the perfect name

[DahBlount]

Commit that caused the botched rendering has been found. There is an issue on Github.

[CT27]

I'd like to give this a try someday, but it sounds like with what you guys are talking about that there are some minor bugs to work out.


When they get fixed, what files do I put where in order to use this new model?

[asyikarea51]

So RCS just means side thrusters? Acronyms ugh, I can just call them 'side thrusters', can I?  

Have to admit I miss the blockiness of the older HTL and the original model though, it looked more 'tough' by being more blocky. And there's something about the texturing at the middle segment, especially near the mortar launcher that really, really bothers me somehow, but I probably wouldn't care too much if this model goes into a new MediaVPs anyway. Guess that makes it my feedback i suppose, even though I won't be using the model anytime soon anyway...

Graphics these days is so lifelike I probably couldn't spot a new-gen error even if I was staring right at it.

[DahBlount]

Bug with PBR rendering has been fixed as of this morning. Should be up in the next nightly.

[fightermedic]

Yep, is working again, very well

[CT27]

Sorry for the necro, but I tried this recently and got a dark black Leviathan.

[AdmiralRalwood]

Sorry for the necro, but I tried this recently and got a dark black Leviathan.

Are you trying to use it with FSO 3.7.4? It has PBR textures, which won't work right without a PBR renderer (so you need either 3.8 or a recent nightly build).

[CT27]

Sorry for the necro, but I tried this recently and got a dark black Leviathan.

Are you trying to use it with FSO 3.7.4? It has PBR textures, which won't work right without a PBR renderer (so you need either 3.8 or a recent nightly build).

That could be the problem.

BTW, is there a way to remove the RCS (side thrusters)?  Visually I'm not crazy about them.

[Trivial Psychic]

You'd only need to remove the thruster entries from the modular table file included with the model.

[xenocartographer]

What are those flammy things coming out of the model?

A triple dose of realism IN MAH FREESPACE.

Less so than you'd think. Real spacecraft use reaction wheels to change orientation, for the simple reason that that doesn't require reaction mass and is easier to control.

...that said, this is a game where a ship stops moving if you turn off the engine, so whatever.

[Hades]

I think it's pretty clear the universe is supposed to have maneuvering thrusters. The black dots on the retail leviathan/fenris (for some reason they're glows on the texture here, not sure why) are pretty clearly meant for that purpose. Plus you see a Poseidon using them in a CBANI in FreeSpace 1.

Still, the ones on Leviathan here are a bit overdone and not very well placed I feel.

[DefCynodont119]

What are those flammy things coming out of the model?

A triple dose of realism IN MAH FREESPACE.

Less so than you'd think. Real spacecraft use reaction wheels to change orientation, for the simple reason that that doesn't require reaction mass and is easier to control.

...that said, this is a game where a ship stops moving if you turn off the engine, so whatever.

It's never a bad time to learn something new:   

Hidden Text: Show

A cluster of CMGs can become saturated, in the sense that it is holding a maximum amount of angular momentum in a particular direction and can hold no more.

As an example, suppose a spacecraft equipped with two or more dual-gimbal CMGs experiences a transient unwanted torque, perhaps caused by reaction from venting waste gas, tending to make it roll clockwise about its forward axis and thus increase its angular momentum along that axis. Then the CMG control program will command the gimbal motors of the CMGs to slant the rotors' spin axes gradually more and more forward, so that the angular momentum vectors of the rotors point more nearly along the forward axis. While this gradual change in rotor spin direction is in progress, the rotors will be creating gyroscopic torques whose resultant is anticlockwise about the forward axis, holding the spacecraft steady against the unwanted waste gas torque.

When the transient torque ends, the control program will stop the gimbal movement, and the rotors will be left pointing more forward than before. The inflow of unwanted forward angular momentum has been routed through the CMGs and dumped into the rotors; the forward component of their total angular momentum vector is now greater than before.

If these events are repeated, the angular momentum vectors of the individual rotors will bunch more and more closely together round the forward direction. In the limiting case, they will all end up parallel, and the CMG cluster will now be saturated in that direction; it can hold no more angular momentum. If the CMGs were initially holding no angular momentum about any other axes, they will end up saturated exactly along the forward axis. If however (for example) they were already holding a little angular momentum in the "up" (yaw left) direction, they will saturate (end up parallel) along an axis pointing forward and slightly up, and so on. Saturation is possible about any axis.

In the saturated condition attitude control is impossible. Since the gyroscopic torques can now only be created at right angles to the saturation axis, roll control about that axis itself is now non-existent. There will also be major difficulties with control about other axes. For example, an unwanted left yaw can only be countered by storing some "up" angular momentum in the CMG rotors. This can only be done by tilting at least one of their axes up, which will slightly reduce the forward component of their total angular momentum. Since they can now store less "right roll" forward angular momentum, they will have to release some back into the spacecraft, which will be forced to start an unwanted roll to the right.[a]

The only remedy for this loss of control is to desaturate the CMGs by removing the excess angular momentum from the spacecraft. The simplest way of doing this is to use Reaction Control System (RCS) thrusters. In our example of saturation along the forward axis, the RCS will be fired to produce an anticlockwise torque about that axis. The CMG control program will then command the rotor spin axes to begin fanning out away from the forward direction, producing gyroscopic torques whose resultant is clockwise about the forward direction, opposing the RCS as long as it is still firing and holding the spacecraft steady. This is continued until a suitable amount of forward angular momentum has been drained out of the CMG rotors; it is transformed into the moment of momentum of the moving matter in the RCS thruster exhausts and carried away from the spacecraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_moment_gyroscope

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/43265-do-manned-spacecraft-use-reaction-wheels/

https://www.quora.com/How-can-I-understand-the-saturation-of-reaction-wheels-used-in-attitude-control

TL;DR
Reaction wheels are mostly for minor attitude adjustments, RE: If you turn too much in one direction, Reaction wheel stops working. you still need RCS Thrusters to "Reset" the Gyroscope's start position.


Science! 


EDIT: *Ahem, back on topic, control thruster effects in Freespace are done almost completely by the ship TMB, removing or altering their size/position is trivial. No need to panic.

[technopredator]

Instructions how to install this would be great on the original post, for people that are new to this ship upgrades, like me. I got answered here: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=91262.msg1854120#msg1854120

[SypheDMar]

I think it's pretty clear the universe is supposed to have maneuvering thrusters. The black dots on the retail leviathan/fenris (for some reason they're glows on the texture here, not sure why) are pretty clearly meant for that purpose. Plus you see a Poseidon using them in a CBANI in FreeSpace 1.

Still, the ones on Leviathan here are a bit overdone and not very well placed I feel.

Couple that up with a few fighters in the FS1 cb_ani had those thrusters too when they're not visible in-game.

[Trivial Psychic]

I don't think the thrusters appeared on the Poseidon command briefing animation until they got re-done.