Author Topic: Feature Request:Thrusters?  (Read 720 times)

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Feature Request:Thrusters?
I know that most of the ships don't seem to have thrusters right now. What is the possibility that it could be added to ships? It would make a huge improvement in dog fighting. Just a thought since most modern space combat games have them. Just not sure how much work it would take to add that ability to stock ships.

Maybe just a wild idea

 

Offline m!m

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
What kind of thruster do you mean? All ships has main thrusters at the back but by default there are no reaction control thrusters for controlling the orientation but the engine supports drawing these effects. Diaspora uses it on the Vipers and Raptors.

 
Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
If you're talking about side thrust, that's been in code since retail. WiH's Aristeia lets you pilot a GTF Atalanta, which has similar thrust capabilities to a Dragon (but make sure you have keybinds for them).

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
I think he means "give every FS ship Diaspora-style flight dynamics", which could be an interesting mod.

 
Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Yes General that is what I mean (to all existing ships). Not adding glide but just thrusters (vertical and horizontal) so you can strafe with.

Not looking for Newtonian flight control but also not like flying a ship like an airplane in space.

 Just think it would be a huge improvement. Not even asking for graphic changes or effects allow that would be cool as well.

A few minutes with Star Citizen, Everspace and other newer games shows how much they add to the dog fight. Not trying to say FSO needs to be them but if it can be added with no huge coding project then it should be looked into. IMHO

 :)

 

Online Solatar

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
If you just want to add thruster capability, all you need to do is edit the speed in ships.tbl. Give it a non-zero speed for X and Y values, map the keys and there you go. Just make sure you also change the afterburner speed, or your thrust will go to zero when you hit your burners.

I tried this at some point (if I had the file handy I'd just upload it real quick, but it's a very quick edit) and found ~20m/s to be a good value for fighters, and ~10-15 good for bombers.  It starts to feel a bit more like Freelancer, not Diaspora, at FS2 speeds. 

 
Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Yup, that's all doable, but because the engine handles lateral thrust on a class-by-class basis, it wouldn't be compatible with any other mods. Not a huge problem, but something to be aware of. You'd also want to set reverse thrust and it might be worth looking at the AI tables.



Quote
Not looking for Newtonian flight control but also not like flying a ship like an airplane in space.

Incidentally, this setup does a pretty good approximation:

Code: [Select]
$Glide: YES
    +Glide Accel Mult: 1
    +Max Glide Speed: -1 ;; or some large number like 500 if you'd prefer
$Use Newtonian Dampening: YES

You get some Newtonian-ness all the time, and turn on full inertial with Alt-G (flavor this as shutting off the flight controller if you care).

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Actually, this has been done. I the mod (or at least one of its iterations) might have been called RealFlight, though my memory of it is rather fuzzy, so don't quote me on that. FS2 ships got increased speeds (it even came with the campaign modified to account for that) and improved physics. It's quite ancient by this point, but there definitely was something like that.

This was long ago, but I recall Swifty to be the author or at least connected with that mod. IIRC, there was a speed mod, a physics mod and one that combined both of them.

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Yup, that's all doable, but because the engine handles lateral thrust on a class-by-class basis, it wouldn't be compatible with any other mods. Not a huge problem, but something to be aware of.
...Why wouldn't it be compatible with any other mods? This is basically the point of TBM files.
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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Because those other mods would use their own ships and you'd have to rewrite your tables for them? I mean, kinda like radar icons, the base set will work for everything but you'll have to write your own table entries for any user-made ships unless someone else does it for you.

So.. yeah, it will work with any mod out there, but you'll have to manually edit every single ship of every single mod you want to play. It's not too much work but it's not download-n-play either.

Though honestly you're better off just playing mods that were balanced with lateral thrust in mind. Just slapping it on every ship might upset balance a bit. The Loki becomes absolutely ridiculous with decent side thrusters and full tabled turnrates and it's quite common in a lot of campaigns as an enemy ship.
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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
After playing some other space sims using dual joysticks (left one setup for thrusters) and switching my simpit setup for Freespace 2 Open to use the dual sticks (left one being a custom built controller) it would be really awesome to be able to strafe left and right and up and down.  I think it would add a whole new dimension to the game.

So if it is possible to add thrusters to all the ships I for one would love to see it happen.


 
Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
As answered earlier you can do this by yourself with a simple -shp.tbm file for the mod you're playing with about 10-15min of work if you know what you're doing...
If not then just check the modding section http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Portal:Modding look at "table" section (especially ships.tbl) to see how it works.

 
Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
After playing Elite for so long I actually feel really uncomfortable trying to fly ships in FSO with no vertical thrust.
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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Ok I got it figured out. I will modify ship by ship as I fly each mission.  I used a -mod file so it is easy to edit what I need down the road. Thanks
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 10:36:42 am by OverDhill »

 
Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Actually, this has been done. I the mod (or at least one of its iterations) might have been called RealFlight, though my memory of it is rather fuzzy, so don't quote me on that. FS2 ships got increased speeds (it even came with the campaign modified to account for that) and improved physics. It's quite ancient by this point, but there definitely was something like that.

This was long ago, but I recall Swifty to be the author or at least connected with that mod. IIRC, there was a speed mod, a physics mod and one that combined both of them.

I am going to quote this, becuase I am glad that somebody remembers my work :P. I have no idea if it even works properly now anymore, and it really needs missions built seperately around it. It also used Sushi's velocity as it's base. Not sure if Swifty had something to do with it, but they might have done something similar at an earlier or later point in time. It does increase velocity and adds glide and as such does not match OverDhill's specifications. It's also probably not very good.

FighterMedic also did something similar in his remake of the Lightning Marshal campaign. It also includes the utterly lovely Operation: Saviour.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Right. Sushi, not Swifty. Swifty was the FSO graphics wizard, wasn't he? Sushi also did something in the code IIRC... man, I've been away for a long time. :)

 

Offline chief1983

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Sushi did some work overhauling the AI if I recall.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
Sushi is basically singlehandedly responsible for the code behind Fury AI.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Feature Request:Thrusters?
That's it. Dang, I was so hyped up about what they both did, and now I can barely remember all that. :) Blame ArmA3 and Kerbal Space Program, I suppose. I used to have two rows of badges, at least trying to help with all those projects (including regular playtesting on Insane!)... now look at me. Then again, the forum also seems quieter than back then. It used to be so that a day would barely go by without someone posting in modding, BP and missions and campaigns.

Back on topic, I could definitely get behind the idea of a physics/AI mod for FS that'd introduce Diaspora-style flight. The basic implementation wouldn't be hard, but balancing would. Of course, it'd need new AI and patches for mods that introduce new ships for the player to fly. Pity I don't seem to be able to get into this anymore.