Hard Light Productions Forums

Modding, Mission Design, and Coding => The FRED Workshop => Topic started by: Axem on March 28, 2011, 06:01:17 pm

Title: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED In The Year of Our FRED 2014
Post by: Axem on March 28, 2011, 06:01:17 pm
Everybody! It's the beginning of Axem's FRED tutorial series.
To be a genius FREDder like me, do your best!
But when that doesn't work, you can take a look here.


FRED has sure changed from its retail FreeSpace 2 days. Mountains of new sexps and features have been added, allowing certain FREDders to accomplish feats that people had no idea were even possible. Junior FREDders may see something in a campaign and go "WOW, I want to do this in my campaign. But how did they do it?!". Typical answer is "go look in the mission file."

While that's fine and dandy, the people peering in don't have any context on why that stuff worked. So I'm going to help you understand! And then you'll be able to think about how to approach other assuredly insane ideas you have lurking in your head.

Approximately once a month I will create a new tutorial on some random FRED concept. From things as specific to "How do I do in-mission jumping"? or as broad as "Arguments, how do they work?"

Answer to both of those, of course, is magic. But I'll show you the magic.

So, now's your chance to suggest topics or ideas. If there's a bunch of smaller topics that look great, I'll lump them together.

Everything will be posted on the FS Wiki, so if you find a typo or something while reading it, feel free to correct it.

====

The Tutorial List

Tutorial 1: In-Mission Jumping (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_In-Mission_Jumps)
Tutorial 2: Conditional Arguments (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Conditional_Arguments)
Tutorial 3: Directive-is-variable SEXP (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Directive-is-variable_SEXP)
Tutorial 4: Mission Infrastructure and Checkpoints *NEW* (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Mission_Infrastructure)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Axem on March 28, 2011, 06:01:49 pm
Inaugural tutorial, in mission jumping! It's so cool.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: General Battuta on March 28, 2011, 06:04:03 pm
how do i get them to shot beams  :confused:  :confused:  :confused:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: karajorma on March 28, 2011, 06:08:29 pm
:yes:

About time someone other than myself started posting this sort of thing. :)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Rodo on March 28, 2011, 06:23:09 pm
Will be watching for top notch tips :yes:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Grante on March 28, 2011, 06:35:58 pm
Really? I was JUST wondering how to make cap-ships do 'mirco jumps' That's awesome. ha
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Spoon on March 28, 2011, 06:40:04 pm
i reley dont wan to say this

but I have to now.



THIS TUTORIAL IS SO ESEY

I mean all you do is follow a step by step instruction
THAT'S IT!

How is this a tuto- 
oh wait


 :yes: Good job Baka Axem, excellent tutorial
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Luis Dias on March 28, 2011, 06:54:51 pm
It's great work, axem, very informative and humorous! Fantastic! (Insert more adjectives)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Enzo03 on March 28, 2011, 09:08:16 pm
how do i get them to shot beams  :confused:  :confused:  :confused:
Funnily enough, I learned this from playing the JAD series (where it mentions Beamfreeing ships), before I started messing with FRED2 much at all...

...or maybe it was the first DEM..

I don't remember which one I played first XD
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Nuclear1 on March 28, 2011, 11:04:17 pm
how do i get them to shot beams  :confused:  :confused:  :confused:

i dunno lol
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: horza on March 29, 2011, 07:44:54 am
Fascinating! And well-written. Many thanks, Axem.. Please, keep it up. And here's my suggestion: Subspace Missile Strikes.

Greetings,
H.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: General Battuta on March 29, 2011, 08:07:14 am
Fascinating! And well-written. Many thanks, Axem.. Please, keep it up. And here's my suggestion: Subspace Missile Strikes.

Greetings,
H.

Subspace missile strikes are super easy, and can be done entirely via tabling, no FRED wizardry required.

Faking subspace missile strikes from AWACS as in War in Heaven is a little harder and requires a kludge with weapon-create, but is also not that bad.

I may do a checkpoint tutorial and an SSM 'tutorial' at some point.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Scotty on March 29, 2011, 05:04:04 pm
Checkpoints would be a lot more useful, I think. :nervous:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: rscaper1070 on March 29, 2011, 05:53:32 pm
Great tutorial, thank you. If you're taking suggestions I'd love to see tips on how to launch the player from a moving cap ship. :)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: SypheDMar on March 31, 2011, 10:17:33 pm
:yes:

About time someone other than myself started posting this sort of thing. :)
Shade did on the Wiki before this happened. Just throwin' that out there. :nervous: But this is cool nonetheless.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: karajorma on March 31, 2011, 11:48:09 pm
That's true. I remember Shade doing that now. Cetanu did something similar once too.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: GT-Keravnos on April 10, 2011, 03:53:57 am
i reley dont wan to say this

but I have to now.



THIS TUTORIAL IS SO ESEY

I mean all you do is follow a step by step instruction
THAT'S IT!

How is this a tuto- 
oh wait


 :yes: Good job Baka Axem, excellent tutorial

Hey pal, what sounds easy to you, can be difficult for some to even grasp, mind you.

Here to give credit where credit is due, thanks Axem!

Make more of 'em tutorials. Budding Fredders need all the help they can get.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Scourge of Ages on April 10, 2011, 06:07:48 pm
Pssst...
Eeeet eees joke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2Z23SAFVA
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Axem on April 11, 2011, 06:47:11 pm
I think the next topic is going to be conditional arguments. It'll help set the stage for other magic later on. I think there may be other tutorials around for those here too, but I'll go into all sorts of weird stuff you can do with them.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Enzo03 on April 11, 2011, 09:03:55 pm
Can't wait!!



...


...but I'm going to have to :(
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: The_Force on May 03, 2011, 10:36:47 am
Very good Axem
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 03, 2011, 10:57:15 am
I admit i did rape-look at the Vassagos Dirge and WIH files to see how player jumps were done, but this tutty-tut makes the theory behind the practice all the more satisfying to plant in my headspace.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: newman on May 05, 2011, 07:35:30 am
Glad there's more of this stuff around, it'll be very useful for me when I finally have time to go learn FRED. Probably some time after I die.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Axem on May 05, 2011, 07:39:09 pm
Oh look, it's May without an April entry at all.

For shame Axem. For shame...

Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Hippo on May 05, 2011, 11:34:19 pm

Ping!
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: The_Force on May 06, 2011, 05:50:26 am
Please can you do a cutscene tutorial, the ones already done are to vague
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Snail on May 06, 2011, 12:52:43 pm
Yeah and Axem is like the best at cuttlefish.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Enzo03 on May 06, 2011, 05:24:31 pm
Oh look, it's May without an April entry at all.

For shame Axem. For shame...


*Slaps Axem on the wrists*
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: swamper123 on May 06, 2011, 09:28:59 pm
Yeah, will finally expand my retail freeding skills , thanks Axem  :yes: :yes:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: The_Force on May 16, 2011, 04:48:49 am
Is this still being worked on?
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: General Battuta on May 16, 2011, 10:03:34 am
Is this still being worked on?

Axem is super busy with all the campaigns he's on, but I'm sure he'll do another when motivated.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Colonol Dekker on May 16, 2011, 10:36:12 am
Is this still being worked on?

Axem is super busy with all the campaigns he's on, but I'm sure he'll do another when motivated.

NEw JAD!!!!! Aw3so[\/]3n3S5!!!!!!

2.5 isn't it>?
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Axem on May 16, 2011, 05:07:12 pm
2.2 actually. And yes I was sort of preoccupied with working on that and BP as of late. However this weekend is a long weekend in Canada-land, so I hope to have the next part then. I already have an overview of what I'm going to be doing, so its just detailing it all.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Axem on July 01, 2011, 11:34:40 am
Axem's Conditional Arguments April Tutorial is out... in July. (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Conditional_Arguments)

Obviously Axem has a time machine.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials
Post by: Angelus on July 01, 2011, 02:17:15 pm
Nyan.  :yes:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: FreeSpaceFreak on July 02, 2011, 02:01:57 am
:yes::yes:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: karajorma on July 02, 2011, 06:19:23 am
One point I feel is worth mentioning is that the argument SEXPs do not loop in the way you might think they do. For instance in this case

(http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/images/Axm_argtut12.png)

the game will make all ships with less than 30% hull jump out THEN make all the same ships send messages. It will not warp out the first matching ship, send a message from it THEN move onto the second match. This sort of thing has tripped up quite a few FREDders in the past, especially when using string variables to hold the value of <argument>.

If you think about it, you should see that it always ends up holding the value of the last matching item in the list regardless of how many ships match.

Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: Spoon on July 02, 2011, 06:32:49 am
Nyan :3
Very clear and helpful tutorial. Even Spoon has use for this  :yes:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: Axem on November 03, 2011, 06:45:00 pm
Yeah, doing this monthly worked out sooo well...

Any future requests?

How about choosing from one of the following:
a) Custom Countdown Timers (as seen in JAD2.21)
b) using variable-is-directive (as seen in JAD2.21)
c) Something else from JAD. :p
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: CommanderDJ on November 03, 2011, 06:47:29 pm
b)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: Spoon on November 03, 2011, 06:51:32 pm
a)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: bigchunk1 on November 03, 2011, 07:38:10 pm
Request: how to switch control between two different ships in a single mission.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: Axem on November 03, 2011, 08:41:33 pm
You WOULD ask for that, wouldn't you.

I'm working on directive-is-variable as its pretty simple. Maybe by this weekend I'll have that up.

Then I'll do countdowns.

And then... hot swapping... :mad:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: CommanderDJ on November 03, 2011, 09:18:56 pm
Request: how to switch control between two different ships in a single mission.

Actually I'd be interested in this as well. I would have thought you couldn't actually swap the player to a different ship, but that changing classes/weapons/hull integrity/everything else was necessary. Then again I haven't FREDded in a while. We'll see what the Master comes up with!
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED July 1st
Post by: Axem on November 03, 2011, 09:26:06 pm
That's pretty much what it is. But there's some tricks and logic so everything works correctly.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Axem on November 05, 2011, 10:24:06 pm
Hooray! New tutorial up!

Directive-is-variable SEXP! (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Directive-is-variable_SEXP)

Not only is it a brand new sexp, but its also an awesome brand new sexp! Demands visibility for all to see and use!

Also stuck so everyone can see and because I can abuse my power.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: karajorma on November 05, 2011, 11:30:54 pm
Nice to see that SEXP getting used. :)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Rodo on November 06, 2011, 11:48:23 am
I didn't knew what this sexp was for, I see a place where I can use it right now.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Adi on August 13, 2012, 02:16:29 pm
Everybody! It's the beginning of Axem's FRED tutorial series.
To be a genius FREDder like me, do your best!
But when that doesn't work, you can take a look here.


FRED has sure changed from its retail FreeSpace 2 days. Mountains of new sexps and features have been added, allowing certain FREDders to accomplish feats that people had no idea were even possible. Junior FREDders may see something in a campaign and go "WOW, I want to do this in my campaign. But how did they do it?!". Typical answer is "go look in the mission file."

While that's fine and dandy, the people peering in don't have any context on why that stuff worked. So I'm going to help you understand! And then you'll be able to think about how to approach other assuredly insane ideas you have lurking in your head.

Approximately once a month I will create a new tutorial on some random FRED concept. From things as specific to "How do I do in-mission jumping"? or as broad as "Arguments, how do they work?"

Answer to both of those, of course, is magic. But I'll show you the magic.

So, now's your chance to suggest topics or ideas. If there's a bunch of smaller topics that look great, I'll lump them together.

Everything will be posted on the FS Wiki, so if you find a typo or something while reading it, feel free to correct it.

====

The Tutorial List

Tutorial 1: In-Mission Jumping (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_In-Mission_Jumps)
Tutorial 2: Conditional Arguments (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Conditional_Arguments)
Tutorial 3: Directive-is-variable SEXP *NEW!* (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Directive-is-variable_SEXP)

Axem, do you have it in pdf format - easier to print :D
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 13, 2012, 03:26:06 pm
Forget the PDF.. I want a NEW tutorial...

Approximately once a month I will create a new tutorial on some random FRED concept. From things as specific to "How do I do in-mission jumping"? or as broad as "Arguments, how do they work?"

Bold, Italics, Underline.. mine.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on August 13, 2012, 04:03:12 pm
Forget the PDF.. I want a NEW tutorial...

Approximately once a month I will create a new tutorial on some random FRED concept. From things as specific to "How do I do in-mission jumping"? or as broad as "Arguments, how do they work?"

Bold, Italics, Underline.. mine.

:nervous: +1
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Axem on August 13, 2012, 06:26:32 pm
Obviously I meant Jovian month. Which is like a year to us...

Any suggestions for a new tutorial?

Also no on the PDF thing. I write it for the wiki. You could go to the Printable Version and save the page or export as PDF. That's the best way I could see it being done.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Axem on August 13, 2012, 09:07:07 pm
Double posting because I love having the thread to myself.

After asking IRC and clearing it with the necessary illuminati, here's the plan. A 4 Part Mega Tutorial Series.

Stage 1 - Making Custom HUD Gauges and controlling them in FRED (Yes this does go into modding a bit, but its easy and I'll provide the files too)
Stage 2 - Conversation Trees (Basic) (Single Run-Through, Number Key Controlled)
Stage 3 - Conversation Trees (Advanced) (Multiple Run-Through, Keyboard Controls)
BONUS STAGE - THE JAD MEGATIMER

Judging by past experience, expect it all to be done in 2027.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: mobcdmoc3 on August 13, 2012, 10:24:39 pm
Awesome. ^^ Really looking forward to seeing the HUD guages tutorial. :nod:
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Adi on August 14, 2012, 04:15:23 am
Also no on the PDF thing. I write it for the wiki. You could go to the Printable Version and save the page or export as PDF. That's the best way I could see it being done.

Good enough. Thanks!
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: karajorma on August 14, 2012, 10:59:48 pm
Awesome. ^^ Really looking forward to seeing the HUD guages tutorial. :nod:

That's one of the FREDding fields I don't know much about so I'm looking forwards to it too. I could dissect some of Axem's missions where he's used them but it's easier to just wait. :)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Rheyah on August 05, 2013, 07:07:28 am
Love these tutorials.  Fastest way to catch me up in what FSO can do these days.

Thanks Axem!
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Axem on August 05, 2013, 07:24:13 pm
And I'll thank YOU for not drawing attention to how its been over a year since the last update. :)

There's actually a good reason behind that. There's a pair of hud sexps that I found confusingly named and kind of backwards to use, and I wanted to wait until they were fixed (after the code freeze) before actually making up the tutorial, so there would be no confusion!

(But couldn't you come up with another subject?)

Maybe. Maybe...
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: karajorma on August 06, 2013, 03:05:06 am
Use of the event.log would be a good subject. Not many people know how to use it.

Hell, if you don't want to write a tutorial on the subject, I probably will at some point.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Axem on August 06, 2013, 05:08:10 pm
Well the guy who wrote it might be able to diverge some tricks and explain in great detail on how it should work better than someone who sort of guesses how it works. :p

That said, I do have an idea for a tutorial about something else.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: karajorma on August 06, 2013, 05:33:43 pm
Fair enough, it's just that a tutorial is probably going to have to wait at least a couple of weeks before I have a PC I can actually run FRED on well enough to make one. :)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Rheyah on August 07, 2013, 04:59:44 am
And I'll thank YOU for not drawing attention to how its been over a year since the last update. :)

There's actually a good reason behind that. There's a pair of hud sexps that I found confusingly named and kind of backwards to use, and I wanted to wait until they were fixed (after the code freeze) before actually making up the tutorial, so there would be no confusion!

(But couldn't you come up with another subject?)

Maybe. Maybe...

I wish!  Once I've got the basics down THEN I'll see about suggesting new things to do :p
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Bullhorn on January 02, 2014, 07:31:32 am
This tutorial is superb.

As an addendum to the in-mission jump, I worked out last night that instead of a force-jump SEXP I could keep track of how many tactical jumps they made via a variable, then once it hit above a certain value give back the player their subspace drive, and add allow-warp.

Thus, allow for a real jump-out.

This allows for silent external influence - eg if a specific objective is achieved the game can silently add to the variable, transforming ALT-J from a  tactical jump to a real exit. This feels a little more flexible,a s it allows the player to achieve the mission goal, yet keep playing and jump out at their leisure. The last work is to clean up the directive line.

Code: [Select]
$Formula: ( modify-variable @TacJump[0] 1 )
+Name: TAC JUMP - Add to Count
+Repeat Count: 1
+Interval: 1
+Chained: 0

$Formula: ( when
   ( > @TacJump[0] 0 )
   ( set-subspace-drive
      ( true )
      "Alpha 1"
   )
   ( allow-warp "Alpha 1" )
)
+Name: ALLOW REAL JUMP
+Repeat Count: 1
+Interval: 1

bh
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED November 5th
Post by: Bullhorn on January 02, 2014, 07:34:12 am
Obviously I meant Jovian month.

LMAO.
I Love you, Axem, for that refenece alone.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED In The Year of Our FRED 2014
Post by: Axem on February 02, 2014, 12:10:07 pm
Many Jovian months later, there is an update.

Mission Infrastructure and Checkpoints! (http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Tutorial_-_Mission_Infrastructure)

Next month: Cutscene SEXPS!
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED In The Year of Our FRED 2014
Post by: Colonol Dekker on February 03, 2014, 03:59:03 am
When-stop
{ hammertime}
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED In The Year of Our FRED 2014
Post by: tmannon on March 16, 2014, 12:41:02 am
I must be the biggest noob ever because I cannot for the life of me find out how to load my FRED missions to be able to play them. The tutorial says that when you start Diaspora go to Data Files -> Mission Simulator. Choose Single Missions.  But when I start the game I get the screen for profile management, Basic settings, Advanced settings and by this point you should know the screen I'm talking about (the picture is the screen im talking about) But nowhere on that page is there a Data Files section and when I press Play to start the actual game there is nowhere in the main menu of the game to start my mission either. Just need a little help on how to load my created missions. Quick help would be much appreciated!!!

[attachment deleted by an evil time traveler]
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED In The Year of Our FRED 2014
Post by: Lepanto on March 16, 2014, 12:46:45 am
You should find Data Files in the mainhall, once you've loaded the game and selected a pilot (I think.)
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED In The Year of Our FRED 2014
Post by: tmannon on March 16, 2014, 12:57:41 am
You should find Data Files in the mainhall, once you've loaded the game and selected a pilot (I think.)
I meant the mainhall when I said main menu. It takes you to the Mainhall (main menu) after you select your pilot but at the main menu you have to choose between Briefing, Campaigns, Data Tech (Not the right place i checked), Options, Pilots, and exit. so I don't think its at the main menu.
Title: Re: Axem's Perfect FRED Tutorials - UPDATED In The Year of Our FRED 2014
Post by: tmannon on March 16, 2014, 01:00:24 am
You should find Data Files in the mainhall, once you've loaded the game and selected a pilot (I think.)
I meant the mainhall when I said main menu. It takes you to the Mainhall (main menu) after you select your pilot but at the main menu you have to choose between Briefing, Campaigns, Data Tech (Not the right place i checked), Options, Pilots, and exit. so I don't think its at the main menu.
Nevermind found it. It was in the Data Tech section i just didnt look hard enough. Thanks for the tip.