Author Topic: Release: 3.7.0 Final  (Read 81883 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Echelon9

  • 210
SDL2 has changed quite a few things regarding player input; I know taylor was planning to rebuild the input handlers when SDL2 was finalized, and it's probably a good idea to do so (If only to get away from the weirdness regarding how keypresses are handled, for example).

From my work on switching to SDL2.0 already, the changes to keypresses are by far the greatest difference.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Looking forward to that patch then. Once it's finalized, we can see about porting it to Windows.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline Echelon9

  • 210
I'm writing it using heavy use of the following macro definition, so it should be seamless to drop into trunk.
From there, it would just be a case of the Windows devs progressively removing Windows specific code in favour of the already present SDL2.0 option.

Code: [Select]
#if SDL_VERSION_ATLEAST(2, 0, 0)
   // Some new SDL2.0 code
#else
   // The existing code
#endif

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
I'd rather not remove the Windows code.  SDL 2.0 doesn't run on Win98. :p  We can partition it off into its own corner if needed.

 

Offline redsniper

  • 211
  • Aim for the Top!
Or maybe at some point it's okay to stop supporting 15 year old operating systems!
"Think about nice things not unhappy things.
The future makes happy, if you make it yourself.
No war; think about happy things."   -WouterSmitssm

HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS:
"...this conversation is pointlessly confrontational."

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
Seriously.  I mean I'm still an XP die-hard (until the security updates die off anyway), but why in the name of cheese would you still be on 98? :p

 

Offline Zacam

  • Magnificent Bastard
  • Administrator
  • 211
  • I go Sledge-O-Matic on Spammers
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Twitter
    • ModDB Feature
I. I don't.


Can I have an adult here please?


Mommy?


In all seriousness, I'm not one to allow for the idea of letting Windows Ninety. F'ing. Eight. impact on bringing in SDL support. So not within the scope.

If YOU want to retain codepath parity for allowance of non-SDL input for it, then YOU find a way to do it that doesn't impact on SDL's ability for cross-platform integration of it.
Report MediaVP issues, now on the MediaVP Mantis! Read all about it Here!
Talk with the FSU on #SCP-FSU Talk with the SCP on #SCP
"If you can keep a level head in all this confusion, you just don't understand the situation"

¤[D+¬>

[08/01 16:53:11] <sigtau> EveningTea: I have decided that I am a 32-bit registerkin.  Pronouns are eax, ebx, ecx, edx.
[08/01 16:53:31] <EveningTea> dhauidahh
[08/01 16:53:32] <EveningTea> sak
[08/01 16:53:40] * EveningTea froths at the mouth
[08/01 16:53:40] <sigtau> i broke him, boys

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
I'd rather not remove the Windows code.  SDL 2.0 doesn't run on Win98. :p  We can partition it off into its own corner if needed.

Do we have to have this discussion again?

I for one do not want to introduce a way to eliminate most of the OS-specific code we have in the engine, only to then have to support a codepath used by what, 2 people? 10?

Seriously, Goober, where are all these people that are still using 98, or other unsupported operating systems? What's the userbase that we keep jumping through hoops for? How big is this supposed silent portion of our userbase that cannot be bothered to update their machines in 15 years? Right now, off the top of my head, there are two people that this has an impact on. You, and that other guy that spoke up months ago to praise us for supporting old operating systems.

By the way, Goob, there's an easy solution if we move to git. You can just make a "legacy" branch and maintain all the things there. But do not expect the rest of us to care.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 

Offline CommanderDJ

  • Software engineer
  • 210
    • Minecraft
I'm going to have to agree with Zacam and The E. Given the nature of SDL, continuing to support an OS that is a decade and a half old (and that hardly anyone uses) after introducing SDL seems a little counterproductive.
[16:57] <CommanderDJ> What prompted the decision to split WiH into acts?
[16:58] <battuta> it was long, we wanted to release something
[16:58] <battuta> it felt good to have a target to hit
[17:00] <RangerKarl> not sure if talking about strike mission, or jerking off
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> WUT
[17:00] <CommanderDJ> hahahahaha
[17:00] <battuta> hahahaha
[17:00] <RangerKarl> same thing really, if you think about it

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
I am extremely amazed that FSO is actually still supporting W98.

 

Offline headdie

  • i don't use punctuation lol
  • 212
  • Lawful Neutral with a Chaotic outook
    • Minecraft
    • Skype
    • Twitter
    • Headdie on Deviant Art
We could just preserve 3.7 as an available advertised download for win 98 players, I mean as it stands it is capable of handling high detail models, more so than I think most system builds that 98 can support can handle.  It has the new pilot code, the sexp system in 3.7 is comprehensive enough that even years down the line a 3.7 user can produce complex and interesting missions,also it will probably be a couple of years before the next "stable" build anyway. in addition it will allow the project more room to optimise the engine and improve multi platform compatibility. 

personally I suggest making the new base compatibility standard as win XP as I believe there is still significant support for the os in the community

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
As far as I'm concerned, the previous agreement is still in effect.  Since I have the most interest in maintaining Windows 98 compatibility, it's fair that I should have the responsibility to maintain it.  I specifically try to avoid burdening the other coders with unreasonable efforts in that direction.  As evidence, I cite the fact that I haven't bothered anyone with the fact that std::hash_map doesn't compile correctly on VC++6.  I am currently working on adapting the VC++6 project to use STLport rather than the library implementation of STL, which will fix this issue, but that's not quite done yet.  That's why I haven't yet posted any Win98-compatible 3.7.0 builds.

Note the wording of my post:
Quote
I'd rather not remove the Windows code. ... We can partition it off into its own corner if needed.

I don't object to the addition of SDL 2.0.  All I want is to keep the Windows code around so that I can maintain a compatibility layer.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
I also read it that way tbh.

 
I have only a basic grasp of what SDL is (something related to the renderer and input?) - what is it about 2.0 that makes it so awesome?
(Also, would it warrant bumping up the version number to 3.8? Seems a big change).

 

Offline z64555

  • 210
  • Self-proclaimed controls expert
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
For our purposes, SDL will be used to handle the interfacing to all input types (keyboard, mouse, joysticks, gamepads, etc.) without needing to mess around with the old DirectInput or hardcoded joystick and mouse drivers. SDL also includes some interfacing with OpenGL, but I don't think we'll be using that part of the lib very much.

"What's wrong with the current controls, anyway?" - to that I say quite a bit. For one, FSO still doesn't support 6-axis controllers nor does it support the mousewheel. By using SDL, we not only gain these controls, but also allow for future devices that have many more axes, buttons, knobs, and stuff (think simulator-grade devices).

EveningTea: Time to go Freeman on this cultist..
* EveningTea pulls crowbar off his shoulderstrap and charges screaming incoherently across the marsh *

z64555: bro. do you even salad

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • Global Moderator
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Skype
    • Steam
    • Twitter
SDL is used to abstract some of the intricacies of hardware access (like Controller input and generating hardware contexts for rendering). Once we have SDL everywhere, we'll probably look at ways to use it even more to eliminate most of the OS-dependant stuff.
**** every cause that ends in murder and children crying. ― Iain Banks
Join the fun at the HLP IRC channel. Get the latest spam and gossip as long as it's fresh!

 
For our purposes, SDL will be used to handle the interfacing to all input types (keyboard, mouse, joysticks, gamepads, etc.) without needing to mess around with the old DirectInput or hardcoded joystick and mouse drivers. SDL also includes some interfacing with OpenGL, but I don't think we'll be using that part of the lib very much.

"What's wrong with the current controls, anyway?" - to that I say quite a bit. For one, FSO still doesn't support 6-axis controllers nor does it support the mousewheel. By using SDL, we not only gain these controls, but also allow for future devices that have many more axes, buttons, knobs, and stuff (think simulator-grade devices).

Will this mean I will be able to map the rotational and slider axisses from my X52 to the energy management system soon? (Please?)

 

Offline Goober5000

  • HLP Loremaster
  • Administrator
  • 214
    • Goober5000 Productions
"Soon" in the same sense that the pilot file code was added "soon" after 3.6.5, I would imagine.

 

Offline Mongoose

  • Rikki-Tikki-Tavi
  • Global Moderator
  • 212
  • This brain for rent.
    • Minecraft
    • Steam
    • Something
Hopefully not quite that bad. :p

 

Offline Zarax

  • 210
    • http://www.microsoftusernetwork.com/zarax
Don't kill me if this is covered somewhere else please, are you guys planning a 3.7 installer as well?

Thanks!
The Best is Yet to Come
Windows Media Wiki