[mjn.mixael]

Please for the love of Bosch check the threads. You'll see the one that I keep updated is up-to-date- as of April 2013 if you check the 'last edited' line at the bottom of the post.

So either you didn't think to check the 'last edited' line OR you didn't bother to look at the threads you KNEW existed since last year.

[Darklord42]

As people said, with the huge influx of models and assets it is understandable not to rock the boat.  But 3 years is a long time when so much has effort has already been done and is in dire need of being showcased to the community as a whole.  SCP has made more of an effort to make more frequent releases as a means to keep things moving forward and keep people motivated.  But SCP is rather abstract in what it does and for the most part, rather intangable.  It is FSU that is the most visable part of the community and is the thing that evreyone gravatates to when ever Freespace and this community is mentioned.   When a new SCP version pops out it may get a mention out side of the community but it falls on the by-road.  Whenever a new FSU pops out, excitement for the community is at a all time high as well as a huge influx of new tallent and all the works of the SCP pays off.  Just seems like missing out on an opportunity when there is such a large gap. 

  And thats the thing does declaring a freeze on this set of mediavps neccessarily mean all halt on what someone may be doing?  Thats not the case with SCP with the 3.7 release candidates, why here?

[Scourge of Ages]

Please for the love of Bosch check the threads. You'll see the one that I keep updated is up-to-date- as of April 2013 if you check the 'last edited' line at the bottom of the post.

So either you didn't think to check the 'last edited' line OR you didn't bother to look at the threads you KNEW existed since last year.

Ah, those. Please forgive us, but since the "Last post" date is in 2011, most people (like me) will just not bother checking and assume that they're out of date. Any way we can do something about that, to maybe be a little clearer? Maybe a bump once in a while?

http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=78413.0 (Also this one has a misleading title)
http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=73731.0

[mjn.mixael]

'Changelog' is confusing? Well, whatever. It's a changelog.. it lists what's new since the last version.

Bumping a thread just cause it's been edited... a hearty no thanks on that. If people can't be arsed to check the threads, I suppose I can't be arsed to answer the question anymore. I'm barely motivated to keep the threads up-to-date as it is....

[Luis Dias]

I don't understand the trouble here, the threads are even stickied. From time to time I do check up on them, and I think it's an useful list. Anyway, I think that tangential conversation is not constructive at all, my 2 cents.

[Raven2001]

I really don't see what the fuss is about regarding the asset thread. I made a question or 2, they were answered (although in a somewhat aggressive nature, but hey, it's the internetz). So there, problem solved!

[Scourge of Ages]

'Changelog' is confusing? Well, whatever. It's a changelog... it lists what's new since the last version.

"MediaVPs Changelog [A Heads-Up About How Mod Compatibility Will Be Affected]" makes it sound like it's more code-y stuff and less "hey new models!"

As for the other one, even though it's the "Current" assets thread, the last post is still in 2011. So for people like me who use last post date as a gauge, that is kind of confusing until you actually look at the thread itself and check the last edited date (which nobody really does without good reason).

I appreciate that those threads are there, I seriously didn't know that they were actually current until you pointed that out today. Even after you said that they were updated and stickied, it still took me over 30 seconds staring at the board to figure out which ones you were talking about.

Anyway, if you'd like to see fewer threads like this one, it couldn't hurt to make it a little more obvious that all the information we're looking for is already available, at a glance.

[MatthTheGeek]

Just another day in "people never read the goddamn stickies".

[Luis Dias]

Wouldn't it be great if some coder here at HLP could just make me an app for my google glasses telling me everything exactly what I wanted to know, not in codelanguage but rather in beautiful helvetica neue light, with a gorgeous design? I mean, scanning forums is soooo 90s. Î want Siri to tell me everything I am missing here, and apologize to me while doing it. I deserve it!

And come on, now seriously though, forget the google glasses, but not a single rotating icon of the ship in question in those tables? How come HLP still doesn't have native support for 3D so the FSU staff can place their models right on the tables themselves? This is outrageous. And *tablesª? What am I talking here? Tables are so programming-stuff like ****. You should do iOS-like cards, floating above the forum, each with Valathil-level warping effect and a rotating ship in it. It's the least you can do, as it is right now it's unreadable! What do you take us for? We are no Trinity or Neo!

[Crybertrance]

Wouldn't it be great if some coder here at HLP could just make me an app for my google glasses telling me everything exactly what I wanted to know, not in codelanguage but rather in beautiful helvetica neue light, with a gorgeous design? I mean, scanning forums is soooo 90s. Î want Siri to tell me everything I am missing here, and apologize to me while doing it. I deserve it!

And come on, now seriously though, forget the google glasses, but not a single rotating icon of the ship in question in those tables? How come HLP still doesn't have native support for 3D so the FSU staff can place their models right on the tables themselves? This is outrageous. And *tablesª? What am I talking here? Tables are so programming-stuff like ****. You should do iOS-like cards, floating above the forum, each with Valathil-level warping effect and a rotating ship in it. It's the least you can do, as it is right now it's unreadable! What do you take us for? We are no Trinity or Neo!

DO WANT! 

[Alan Bolte]

After correlating the two stickies, I still have no idea what we're waiting on other than Colossus normal maps, because neither thread indicates which models are ready for release - the tedius bit at the end of LODs, debris, and otherwise finalizing and testing the POF isn't tracked - not that we really need that level of detail, it'd just be nice to be able to watch a countdown to release (in number of models, not days).

[The Dagger]

The MediaVPs Changelog sticky has a list on every ship changed for the future MediaVPS version. You can even click the name of the ship and see a pretty preview.
The other thread gives you the state of every ship in game, and I guess it's mostly aimed at people searching to contribute (I've certainly used it to get the picture of which model is most in need of improvement).

And let's cut the FSU team some slack. I'd like a new release too, but that's up for them to decide. It's too easy to just complain. If someone wants to speed up the process, get to work or else stop complaining. I do agree that "getting things perfect" is normally on the way of "getting things done". But I think that most people in HLP are well aware of this, and I certainly trust the FSU team's judgement on the matter.

[Phantom Hoover]

We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.

[mjn.mixael]

We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.

Yeah.. this attitude makes me not want to do things for FSU. Guess I'll go work on my own mod for a while until you all relax a bit. I don't speak for the rest of the FSU team.. but my motivation to finish things has not been increased by this thread. I'd rather spend what free time I have on a project that's not privy to this crap.

EDIT: To be clear.. the basic problem is this. It does not matter what the project is. You all are not entitled to my free time or my hard work. Demanding that I work on something for you.. nah. Doing that and you will see how I will opt to spend my time and work on a project that is more gratifying... because there is rarely anything gratifying in giving into rudeness and demands.

[Oddgrim]

We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.

Yeah.. this attitude makes me not want to do things for FSU. Guess I'll go work on my own mod for a while until you all relax a bit. I don't speak for the rest of the FSU team.. but my motivation to finish things has not been increased by this thread. I'd rather spend what free time I have on a project that's not privy to this crap.

Indeed, while I would like to believe that phantom hoovers comment was not intended to be negative, I cannot interpret that as anything but : We have waited too long, I am entitled to view everything you have.

The thing is: Unless its released, it means its not ready yet. :/
Finally this is a free modding project everything we do, texture or model we do at on our spare alotted time, I should not be saying this but everyone involved are not in any way paid for our efforts. Nor can we held responsible for a set release date, or owe anyone but our sincerest creations, our labours of love one might say.

[Luis Dias]

We have cut them some slack, in the 3 years since the last release. Maybe it's time we were more direct in asking for them to actually make their work accessible to the wider community.

I really don't understand the need for this kind of jerkiness. The work *is* accessible to the community. It's not as if this work is hidden in some batman cage where Mjn is the only man with the keys, most of the "HTL'd" ships that are done *are* released already, individually.

To make a new VP with them requires some work on itself, and this means you don't have to cut slack to anyone since you have no right to even be able to be in such a generous mood. IOW, the FSU people owe you precisely zero work hours. If you want it to be done ASAP because you are tired of waiting 3 plus years, then I'd recommend you do the remaining job and create your own mod with the new assets.

Personally I'd love for an interim release, I think it would be a great idea, but never crosses my mind to "cut" anyone "any" slack about it, demand anything, etc., for I never thought myself to be in a position where I could judge them at all. This is a hobby folks. And it's not even your hobby, it's other people's hobby.

PS: just another point. What's less fun about this is that a hobby is supposed to be fun. But I quite get Mjn's reaction, if people suddenly started demanding me **** for free in my hobby, it would stop being as much fun. And I have the tendency to forgo hobbies that aren't that much fun in exchange for others that are more, I'm guessing anyone else will do the same.

[FreeSpaceFreak]

And let's cut the FSU team some slack. I'd like a new release too, but that's up for them to decide. It's too easy to just complain. If someone wants to speed up the process, get to work or else stop complaining. I do agree that "getting things perfect" is normally on the way of "getting things done". But I think that most people in HLP are well aware of this, and I certainly trust the FSU team's judgement on the matter.

This. Now can we all please just shut up and move on before someone pisses off the FSU guys even more? This discussion doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

[Phantom Hoover]

You're right, I shouldn't have chipped in; because this thread has just become the standard mess of defensive accusations of 'entitlement'. No, I am not demanding anything from you. If you didn't want to work on new assets, or you couldn't find the time to collate them into a new set of VPs, I would completely understand. But neither of these seem to be the case. You're sitting atop a pile of apparently-completed models, and yet you've completely stopped releasing them; and the only explanation I've seen is that the next MVPs will be released 'when they're done' (which is, as pointed out earlier in this thread, an unattainable goal).

I mean, don't you want people to enjoy your work? I just want to know why you're following this policy which doesn't seem to have any benefit for anyone.

[Scourge of Ages]

I think I can answer that, Phantom.

The media VPs are HUGE. If you've ever looked inside, there are dozens of folders, tables, components, sounds, effects and all sorts of stuff.

Adding one ship to a mod is easy. Adding dozens of new ones, all with slight differences from the ones they're replacing, making sure that the tables are all still compatible and functional together, and making sure that whatever animations and effects play nice with whatever goes before is a huge task.

If the FSU project has already started this task, but they know that a few new models will be available very soon, wouldn't it make sense to wait until they're done so as to roll all the effort together? That way, they wouldn't need to start over and make a whole new VP release when Oddgrimm finishes all the Vasudan ships in like a month.

tl;dr - Releasing Media VPs is a massive task that's very different from just making a model and releasing it.

I for one am happy to trust the FSU Project's judgement, and really appreciate everything they do.

[Phantom Hoover]

Except they used to release new MVPs regularly! I'm asking honestly, did they decide they couldn't keep up with that workload any more? As for incorporating new models, there will always be a few assets just around the corner. Saying "right, everything that comes after this deadline will wait 'til the next release" is an unavoidable part of doing incremental releases like this.