Author Topic: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps  (Read 53178 times)

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Offline Turambar

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
So I saw something interesting recently somewhat related to this topic

https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2017/march/trump-clinton-debates-gender-reversal.html

All the more evidence that the whole reality TV debate business is just bull**** and we should all vote based on policy platform.
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Offline rubixcube

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Lol, anyone see this? Just watching the video I could feel the tension coming through.

http://time.com/4705483/president-trump-angela-merkel-handshake/
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Lol, she should have just grabbed his hand and given him a big Ole yank.
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Offline 0rph3u5

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Most of the press fotos from Merkel's visit have uncomfortable written all over it (thats why over there the long buried "mama/Mutti Merkel"-meme came rushing back)
... and Merkel did throw him a bone by setting job education on the top of agenda.

Lol, she should have just grabbed his hand and given him a big Ole yank.

Not her style, letting the scene play out the way it did was.
Merkel knows how to handle her blustering alpha males by letting them reveal themselves.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2017, 09:44:07 am by 0rph3u5 »
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Offline Mikes

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Official statement says that "Trump didn't hear the question/request" and that was the reason he didn't shake hands.  :nod:


Considering that I myself routinely overhear questions as well when I am busy basking in my own glory at photo Ops  :lol: ... I can totally understand it.  :nod:

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
TIL the New York Times is a conspiracy magazine:...

Where in there does it say Obama ordered the investigation? Cause that's the part that is a conspiracy theory.

No it isn't; that's just moving the goalposts.  The so-called "conspiracy theory" was whether any wiretapping happened at all.  Now that we've established that wiretapping did take place, it's logical to assume that it happened with Obama's permission.

Not to mention the common stylistic device of using a person's name as a metonymy for the entire organization.  If the Justice Department under Obama ordered the phones to be tapped, then it's counts as the same thing, since the buck stops at the President.  It's no different from saying "Trump should do something about the Flint water situation" when it would be Trump's EPA that would handle it, not Trump personally.

Quote
Where is the proof that Trump's phones were tapped rather than other people in his campaign. Where is the proof that Trump Tower was tapped?

This is the mirror-image metonymy, as "Trump" could stand for either Trump himself or people in the Trump organization.

For proof, read jr2's list.  Or, you know, read the New York Times article.  To throw your words back at you, did you even bother to read the article I posted?

 

Offline Scotty

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Why am I not surprised that the first thing Goob does in two weeks is ****post in a political thread in GD

EDIT: even better, about a line of discussion that was literally two weeks ago too.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Why am I not surprised that the first thing Goob does in two weeks is ****post in a political thread in GD

EDIT: even better, about a line of discussion that was literally two weeks ago too.

A) it wasn't the first thing I did on HLP in two weeks; B) it wasn't a ****post; C) I responded to a direct question.

I do see, though, how posting passive-aggressive insults in lieu of actually discussing the issue has a certain appeal.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
It is a fun hobby :)
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Not to mention the common stylistic device of using a person's name as a metonymy for the entire organization.  If the Justice Department under Obama ordered the phones to be tapped, then it's counts as the same thing, since the buck stops at the President.  It's no different from saying "Trump should do something about the Flint water situation" when it would be Trump's EPA that would handle it, not Trump personally.

Except that it is different. Obama literally can't tell the Justice Department who to wiretap. Even if I buy your argument (which I don't - my first post clearly pointed out that the conspiracy I was referring to was Obama personally ordering a wiretap), don't you think it distinctly worrying that the guy now in charge of the Justice Department is making that mistake? Does he not know that? Or is he simply so unable to use the correct terminology that he wrote something that sounds like he's directly accusing the former president of a crime and he simply doesn't care? It's like saying Obama's FBI, it's deliberately implying a connection that isn't there.

A) it wasn't the first thing I did on HLP in two weeks;

Actually, it is pretty obvious from your post history that this is the first thread you posted on in two weeks. Now you may have read other posts first, but I don't think anyone trying to argue about Trump's use of language is in any position to claim that Scotty's claim wasn't correct.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 12:06:18 am by karajorma »
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Except that it is different. Obama literally can't tell the Justice Department who to wiretap. Even if I buy your argument (which I don't - my first post clearly pointed out that the conspiracy I was referring to was Obama personally ordering a wiretap), don't you think it distinctly worrying that the guy now in charge of the Justice Department is making that mistake? Does he not know that? Or is he simply so unable to use the correct terminology that he wrote something that sounds like he's directly accusing the former president of a crime and he simply doesn't care? It's like saying Obama's FBI, it's deliberately implying a connection that isn't there.

This is exactly how Trump works.  He makes a statement with some superficial flaw that allows his detractors to nitpick to their hearts' content.  Meanwhile, the underlying truth -- that wiretapping indeed took place -- is communicated far and wide, by both his allies and his enemies.

Look at the spokesman's very specific denial:

Quote
Kevin Lewis said that "neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any US citizen". [...] In his statement, Mr Lewis said a "cardinal rule of the Obama Administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice".

This says nothing about whether any non-White House official ordered wiretapping, nothing about whether Obama knew about it, and nothing about whether the results of the wiretapping were shared with Obama.


A) it wasn't the first thing I did on HLP in two weeks;

Actually, it is pretty obvious from your post history that this is the first thread you posted on in two weeks. Now you may have read other posts first, but I don't think anyone trying to argue about Trump's use of language is in any position to claim that Scotty's claim wasn't correct.

And how about PM history?  But feel free to keep arguing that you know what I did better than I do.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 12:12:32 am by Goober5000 »

 

Offline -Joshua-

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Trump very specifically referred to the individual Obama rather then the Obama white house or Obama government. Just FYI.

Quote
Meanwhile, the underlying truth -- that wiretapping indeed took place -- is communicated far and wide, by both his allies and his enemies.

Trump has not been able to provide evidence for this 'underlying truth'. That's part of the point, alongside him antagonizing neutral parties.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 03:09:09 am by -Joshua- »

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
This is exactly how Trump works.  He makes a statement with some superficial flaw that allows his detractors to nitpick to their hearts' content.  Meanwhile, the underlying truth -- that wiretapping indeed took place -- is communicated far and wide, by both his allies and his enemies.

Except that it's not true.

Quote
Several senior Republicans have rejected the allegations after congressional committees looked into them.

Senate Intelligence Committee chairman Richard Burr said on 16 March there were "no indications" that Trump Tower was the subject of surveillance by any element of the US government either before or after Election Day 2016.

Which brings me back to my original point that the entire thing is a conspiracy theory. If you've fallen for it, despite the fact that even President Trump couldn't provide a single piece of evidence, that's your problem.
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Offline -Joshua-

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
It's amazing I'm still managing to lose weight considering the amount of popcorn this presidency has provided.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Yeah, love him or hate him you cannot deny he makes for excellent circus.

As far as the wiretapping thing goes, I did not take Trumps accusation to mean that Barack Obama, himself, personally, literally, walked into the basement of Trump Tower and using his own hands and technical skills placed a listening device on the analogue telecommunications lines leading to Trump's room. I honestly have not been following this issue very close, but I would give him a pass if it was the case that a government agency monitored his communications, and say it was an accurate statement if it was found that someone high up who was a major appointee (like Loretta Lynch for example) was involved in the decision. I am not saying this is the case, just laying out how my evaluation of the statement would be made. If it was found that a government agency did monitor Trump but the decision can be traced back to (for example) a Bush era appointee then I would say that is probably not something that cannot be blamed on Obama.

I also took his statement to be yet another ninja smoke bomb to distract from the last controversy. he just keeps throwing chum in the water whenever the media starts getting close to taking a nip out of him, and it's working.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 12:01:58 pm by Bobboau »
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Offline perihelion

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
he just keeps throwing chum in the water whenever the media starts getting close to taking a nip out of him, and it's working.
Yes.  It's called gas-lighting.  And he's pulling it on entire nations.
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Offline Mika

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
What is so strange in president-elect getting followed and monitored by a government intelligence agency? That's what I would expect them to do, and that's what they should be doing. The agencies certainly never explicitly tell him that, but I also don't think Trump can play that card.

My reaction to the hand shake refusal: must be a news-poor day.

The most interesting comment I've seen from Trump is him saying Germany is freeloading in NATO.

EDIT: Though to be fair, Obama has said that too. This US point should be taken very seriously, and should already have been once Obama said that. But unlike Obama, Trump can and I think also will do something to enforce the treaty terms are followed.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 04:24:45 pm by Mika »
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Offline rubixcube

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
EDIT: Though to be fair, Obama has said that too. This US point should be taken very seriously, and should already have been once Obama said that. But unlike Obama, Trump can and I think also will do something to enforce the treaty terms are followed.

Trump's sentiments regarding Germany and Nato are sort of true, though he does get some details wrong. As I don't live in Germany I can't speak to the public mood regarding enlargement of the Bundeswehr (Not sure if The E has talked about it already); I understand a lot of the post-ww2 German pacifism still remains, though it seems many in Europe and America want them to let go of that.
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Offline MP-Ryan

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
Yesterday, three of the most powerful people in the United States justice and intelligence systems directly stated, UNDER OATH, that Trump was not subject to wiretapping, period, and that his Tweets were entirely unsubstantiated.  Looking forward to seeing the mental gymnastics Trump supporters like Goober go through to get around those statements.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-trump-faces-his-hardest-truth-he-was-wrong/2017/03/20/af9cabfc-0d83-11e7-9b0d-d27c98455440_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_trumpdamage-0628pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.bc40f21d7e60

Second, the FBI has now confirmed that Team Trump's ties to Russia have been under investigation by the FBI since July.

Third, a new Pew poll proves conclusively that partisanship is a scourge that destroys all rational thought and consistency.  Tribes win over substance and policies, apparently: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/01/10/u-s-public-says-russia-hacked-campaign/
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Offline Bobboau

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Re: Trumpety Nuttery Trumpety Trumps
"Goober is a dirty filthy wrongthinker ... tribalism is a thing"

:lol:
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