Author Topic: Forum avatars and titles  (Read 31887 times)

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
i could not give less of a **** who does and doesn't get some petty status symbol on a modding forum
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
Goober, just because we've always done things one way doesn't mean we should always do it that way. Quite frankly I've never really cared about avatars as a perk (hell, I hadn't noticed that it's not even showing up until this thread) so as long as we leave avatars off as the default setting for users, I see no reason we couldn't allow people to have them. It should be possible to make it so that Admins can't have theirs turned off and I see no reason why global moderators shouldn't have one.
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Offline The E

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
Yeah, despite my closing of the previous thread (which was more about the tone of it all and the fact that it immediately derailed into "HLP is DEEEEEAAAAD"), I too do not think our restrictions on who does and doesn't get avatars are necessary anymore. This isn't the wild days of the internet ca 2002, where everyone had to have the largest, most obnoxious sigs and avatars imaginable.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
And just because we could hypothetically change long-established tradition does not mean we should do so.  Especially because it's long-established.

And for goodness' sake, the absolute worst reason to change long-established tradition is because one user ****posted about it.  In addition to the disrespect for community history, that sends precisely the wrong message with regards to forum feedback, both to the well-behaved users and to the disruptive ones.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 02:38:51 am by Goober5000 »

 

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
Honestly I don't have a problem with forum avatars in general (provided they're small and unobtrusive enough), and I might even turn them on if we enabled them, but I always kind of liked that we didn't even offer it as an option in the first place.  Sort of a "yeah we don't need that stuff here, post good **** instead!" attitude.  (Signatures were kind of a different story, since people have historically used them to post handy links or promote campaigns, but even then we put the handy expandable feature when they started getting a bit ridiculous.)  Tradition aside, if it is something that the majority of the community wants, I don't feel like we have so many active users that policing for troublesome avatar choices would be a big deal.

I do like Axem's idea about having a dedicated profile area for listing community contributions; hell, we could even tie it into people's individual wiki user pages if that's the easiest way to do it.  Having the staff of a certain project get featured more prominently in that project's folders would be handy too.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
And for goodness' sake, the absolute worst reason to change long-established tradition is because one user ****posted about it.  In addition to the disrespect for community history, that sends precisely the wrong message with regards to forum feedback, both to the well-behaved users and to the disruptive ones.

Says the guy who just gave that user a title. :rolleyes:



There may be reasons not to change things, but you've already completely torpedoed that argument already.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
And for goodness' sake, the absolute worst reason to change long-established tradition is because one user ****posted about it.  In addition to the disrespect for community history, that sends precisely the wrong message with regards to forum feedback, both to the well-behaved users and to the disruptive ones.

Says the guy who just gave that user a title. :rolleyes:

There may be reasons not to change things, but you've already completely torpedoed that argument already.

You're making absolutely no sense.  Giving users titles is part of that tradition.

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
You're saying that we shouldn't change the tradition because of ****posting because that sets a bad impression for forum users. You gave the user who ****posted the reward of a title, and not even an insulting one. Do you really not see how that undermines your entire argument?


I don't care if you feel Spoon ****posted or not. If you felt that it was an issue worthy of admin intervention you could have reprimanded him for it. You didn't. In fact you went well past that and gave him a title. So the issue of Spoon's tone is closed now. You ignored it when you gave him the title, you can't bring it back up now as a reason to avoid changes you personally don't like.

Quite frankly, I'm not prepared to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Regardless of how the topic was brought up, the issue is whether we change things or not is now what is under discussion. Stick to reasons that affect the forum as a whole rather than trying to stop them to spite one particular forum member.
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Offline Goober5000

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
I don't know if you're being dishonest or just oblivious.  For the sake of a good faith discussion I'll assume the latter.

I gave Spoon a verbal reprimand in this post.  I didn't issue a forum warning for a number of reasons, primarily because I didn't want to inflame tensions in this thread (which I see now is a lost cause), and secondarily because I thought doing so might be perceived as attempting to gain the upper hand by means of moderator fiat.  But now that you've demonstrated that you'll claim any action I take is evidence to support your position, I won't be so cautious in the future.

Tradition at HLP is that a user who asks for a new title in a particularly dramatic, entitled, or demanding way usually gets an ironic or tongue-in-cheek title.  Spoon's new title qualifies as such because it is a backhanded reference to his post.  It can be read straight or read in the sense of a petty cry for attention.  The particular interpretation is left for the reader, although I see now that the dual meaning is perhaps too subtle.

In any event, your digression onto this ridiculous tangent is almost beside the point.  Even if you think Spoon's title isn't insulting, you could view it as an olive branch in this specific instance, without conceding anything on titles or tradition generally.

As for your impression that I hold any spite or ill will against Spoon, you are quite mistaken.  I am concerned about the long-term effect on HLP if a single forum member can overturn literally years of HLP precedent based on nothing more than throwing a tantrum.  And this is a mild tantrum compared to what we have experienced in the past.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 04:47:54 am by Goober5000 »

 

Offline karajorma

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
Seriously? :rolleyes:


Okay, I'm just going to continue the discussion with everyone else. Cause I suspect you're the only one that obsessed with maintaining forum discipline.


So. What to do with Titles? Would people prefer to see them retained and made more useful or just gotten rid of?
« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 05:08:15 am by karajorma »
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Offline The E

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
As much as I like mine, I'd rather they be useful than referencing obscure things.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
Well those who already have them could choose if they want to keep them of course. :)
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Offline jr2

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
As for post count. I don't mind showing it, it does help to know who is new around here. There are a few times when I've found it useful with people who weren't very active or who post again after a long time absent.


...eeexcept when jr2 (then pretty-active newer member of the community) uses post count to see who's new, sees BlueFlames (low post count, jr2 has never seen) giving a strong opinion to a well-established member of the community (which would not have been warranted had BlueFlames actually been new) and decides to tell BlueFlames off for being a mouthy n00b.  :warp:   Not the highlight of my HLP career, but funny in hindsight.  :P

Tradition at HLP is that a user who asks for a new title in a particularly dramatic, entitled, or demanding way usually gets an ironic or tongue-in-cheek title.  Spoon's new title qualifies as such because it is a backhanded reference to his post.  It can be read straight or read in the sense of a petty cry for attention.  The particular interpretation is left for the reader, although I see now that the dual meaning is perhaps too subtle.


 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
i could not give less of a **** who does and doesn't get some petty status symbol on a modding forum
That's what everybody sane is thinking. Unforunately we have one admin who is super obsessed with these kind of things and really concerned with hierarchy on a spaceship game forum from 1999.  :lol:

Seriously? :rolleyes:


Okay, I'm just going to continue the discussion with everyone else. Cause I suspect you're the only one that obsessed with maintaining forum discipline.


So. What to do with Titles? Would people prefer to see them retained and made more useful or just gotten rid of?
I vote get rid off. Get rid of mine right now please.
Ignore goober, continue with productive discussion.
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
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[02:44] <@Axem> well
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
I don't know if you're being dishonest or just oblivious. 

The way you fall back on this very rapidly in any discussion is not good for forum discipline either. But then again you've had...issues in the last several years, understanding that HLP is not your personal fiefdom and that your opinions don't come with some kind of special gilding of truth.

I like the title tradition. It's fun. It's quirky. But it gets stuck for years and years and years until the titles have no relevance anymore. I'm pretty sure this one I'm wearing predates even my first X-COM LP and that was a few years ago. If we want to keep it then something's going to have to be done to keep them fresher. Maybe give them an expiry date or something.

I'm kind of blah about project badges. Nobody's mentioned that yet seriously but I'm probably the only person in HLP's history who's actually voluntarily given up the majority of the badges he ever had, when I left the site for several months way back in the day, so. I still can't get rid of this Syrk one because there's apparently no one left who could revoke it.  I'll also note that we've had fights break out over people having badges. TopAce started having a go at anyone with a BP badge for a bit. I recall some scorn being directed at people with WoD badges at least once. I don't get the point anymore. They made sense to me when I was 18, but it's been a long time since I was 18. Stick a line in your signature if you want people to care what project you're in.

There are plenty of decent avatar schemes out there. The clutter issue is in people's heads. You should be scared of images in signatures, not of avatars. Unless you're going to give us 250x250 pixels or something.
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Offline Luis Dias

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
I don't really think that avatar pics will be the amazing thing that will Make HLP Great Again.

As it stands, that left portion is already cluttered, let alone with crazy anime stuff or just sarcastic Nicholson pics which add nothing but mild confusion to the tone of the conversation - yes, confusion. More than not, in all these forums, the avatar pics are an attempt by the forum user to cast a tone, a character to their words, but because we're often self unaware, they are not that accurate at all, and there's this continuous dissonance between the image and the words that follow it (child anime avatars followed by long tl dr articulate analytical almost sicentific jargon, for instance, or badass sensible Optimus Prime followed by childish temper tantrum words...).



There's a reason why "Titles" are not self-inflicted, but chosen by others. (that reason is also why I have never asked for one btw, I'm perhaps too self-aware to know better than that).

So the correct question isn't "Why not?", but rather (and I agree with Goober here), "Why at all?". What does it add that we don't already have? Pictorial-Textual dissonance? As things are right now, if you really want to know someone's character, you actually have to do the work and read the damn textual contribution of that commenter. I like that state of affairs, it doesn't go the route of the lowest possible common denominator.

My 2 cents, of course, and always.

The clutter issue is in people's heads.

Yes, and this problem is often called "design". Whose best mantra ever devised is, and always will be, "Less is More".


 

Offline Hades

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
To be fair Goober, your terrible April Fool's Pranks were "tradition" but they went away and everyone is happier for it.

I'm all for widely used avatars that can be turned off at a user's behest (for them alone, obv) as am I for getting rid of or at least doing something about titles, which are currently mostly useless and/or irrelevant.
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Offline karajorma

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
Well one idea I had was to change titles at the same time as adding highlights. So if you release something (or maybe only something major) you'd get a new title.

I still think the profile page change is the most important thing to have. It would be better if we could have that on the wiki as it would make people want to learn how to edit the wiki and might therefore encourage more people to do that for other pages too.
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Offline Axem

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
I still can't get rid of this Syrk one because there's apparently no one left who could revoke it.

By the power vested in me, I have removed the badge.

(that reason is also why I have never asked for one btw, I'm perhaps too self-aware to know better than that).

And the whole problem with titles (as they are right now). Who knows what you're going to get?

Like Spoon asked for his title to be removed. If people can ask to have a custom color code be added for their own use and that be granted, then should I not be able to give into Spoon's request? Or maybe I should be such the brilliant and funny administrator and give him the title "Stupid Newbie" that adorns so many Something Awful avatars?

Really, it could be anything.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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Re: Forum avatars and titles
By the power vested in me, I have removed the badge.

You are the wind beneath my wings.

And not because I recently replayed JAD.
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