[FrikgFeek]

What? The Ace will die in 5 seconds if you hit him with ML-16s and Furies.

And really, there was at least a minute of sustained fire there, it was definitely longer than 15 seconds of shooting. Whether it's shields recharging too quickly or simply being too strong a dogfight shouldn't take that long.

Is your self delusion so strong that you're distorting memories of other games so they fit in with your image of SC?

[NGTM-1R]

It takes much longer to take down the ace than an Anubis, I dont think it would be interesting if it was over in less than 30 seconds.. and thats the style of combat SC should go for, IMHO

Five times one second is still only five seconds, genius.

[666maslo666]

What? The Ace will die in 5 seconds if you hit him with ML-16s and Furies.

Yeah, and you can maybe do that if he stays still, which he doesnt. So this is a meaningless number from a gameplay perspective.

Average time to kill when the other party is actually evading is what counts, and this shouldnt be too low for a game like SC.

[FrikgFeek]

Or, youknow, you can just stick to his ass within 50m and blast away, like in most Freespace dogfights. Evading doesn't matter when you're that close.

He flies a Seth, not some unbeatable superfighter. He has 280hp compared to 160 of the Anubis and you can gang up on him with your whole wing so he really goes down rather quickly.

[Phantom Hoover]

As usual maslo has entirely detached himself from reality, in which he linked to a video of one fighter almost continuously shooting another for five minutes straight despite whatever evasive action was taking place.

[Unknown Target]

The thing that bugs me about the blackout/redout mechanic, besides the fact that with all the maneuvering your screen is just constantly fading in and out, is that it doesn't make sense. Real people can only take up to about 8 or 9 g's before passing out - and these are top notch pilots wearing G suits.

The maneuvers you're performing in Star Citizen are constantly at that range or higher, which, aside from explaining why the screen is constantly fuzzing out, also means that the player would be probably crushed from the inertia changes. But it bothers me that they nod to one point of the realism but not the other.

As for limited yaw in E:D, that's actually pretty easy to explain...very few of the ships have lateral thrusters. Not sure if you noticed it but most of the thruster locations are on the top and bottom of the ships, with very little on the sides, so...it actually makes sense that the yaw is limited.

I don't know if that's the actual reason for it (in the game developer's minds), but just from how the ships look, that's my explanation for it.

[Sushi]

In Elite's case the overriding reason is clearly "because we think it makes the dogfighting better that way" and any in-universe justification would be just thrown in as an afterthought.

The trouble I have with the blackout/redout mechanic in SC has nothing to do with realism, and everything to do with the fact that the "optimal" way to fly if you want to win involves you barely being able to see most of the time. For me, at least, it simply isn't that pleasant.

[Det. Bullock]

The trouble I have with the blackout/redout mechanic in SC has nothing to do with realism, and everything to do with the fact that the "optimal" way to fly if you want to win involves you barely being able to see most of the time. For me, at least, it simply isn't that pleasant.

My understatement detector went over 20.000.

[Dragon]

What? The Ace will die in 5 seconds if you hit him with ML-16s and Furies.

If you're good with Furies, yes. If you aren't (and thus are spraying him with the ML-16), well, it indeed does take a while to whittle down its health. Seth is indeed hard to kill with that peashooter, and in practice scoring a hit with a Fury isn't easy, at least on a reasonable difficulty.

[FrikgFeek]

Difficulty doesn't even affect how much damage the player does and the Seth doesn't even have shields at that point. With just 4 ML-16s in linked banks it takes ~4.2 seconds to burn through the Seth's 280 hp. Obviously you're not going to hit every single shot but you also have Furies and some of them are going to hit if you're close enough.

It's really not hard to kill a shieldless Seth under 5 seconds, even with just 4 ML-16s and Furies on ANY difficulty.

I don't know why we're even talking about that Ace though, he's hardly a good example of a hard to kill enemy in Freespace. Killing a Nephilim with its 1600 shields and 500 armor is much harder, even with the best weapons you have in FS1, it's why they're so annoying in FS1. Enemies that aren't very dangerous to the player yet take a long time to kill due to pure stats just aren't very fun to fight.

The same goes for multiplayer, you don't want such long kill times in a supposedly action oriented dogfight sim.

[NGTM-1R]

The thing that bugs me about the blackout/redout mechanic, besides the fact that with all the maneuvering your screen is just constantly fading in and out, is that it doesn't make sense. Real people can only take up to about 8 or 9 g's before passing out - and these are top notch pilots wearing G suits.

The G-suits are actually getting better. There's experimental models that have allowed brief periods of consciousness at 11G. (For many modern airframes this is approaching the frame's g-tolerance, nevermind the pilot.)

[Det. Bullock]

The thing that bugs me about the blackout/redout mechanic, besides the fact that with all the maneuvering your screen is just constantly fading in and out, is that it doesn't make sense. Real people can only take up to about 8 or 9 g's before passing out - and these are top notch pilots wearing G suits.

The G-suits are actually getting better. There's experimental models that have allowed brief periods of consciousness at 11G. (For many modern airframes this is approaching the frame's g-tolerance, nevermind the pilot.)

Sincerely it's a moot point in a sci-fi universe that I imagine must have inertial dampeners to, you know, avoid having to take hours/days/centuries to accelerate to higher speeds without making an homelette of pilot and passengers.

[FrikgFeek]

It does seem a bit stupid to have 0.2 lightspeed travel happen within seconds but still have to worry about pulling single-digit Gs.

[NGTM-1R]

Sincerely it's a moot point in a sci-fi universe that I imagine must have inertial dampeners to, you know, avoid having to take hours/days/centuries to accelerate to higher speeds without making an homelette of pilot and passengers.

Or you're just snapping physics over your knee for that kind of thing and so Gs don't matter with it.

[Det. Bullock]

Sincerely it's a moot point in a sci-fi universe that I imagine must have inertial dampeners to, you know, avoid having to take hours/days/centuries to accelerate to higher speeds without making an homelette of pilot and passengers.

Or you're just snapping physics over your knee for that kind of thing and so Gs don't matter with it.

If you are already "snapping physics over your knee" then why simulate Gs?
If someone wants a real hardcore spacesim there's Orbiter: http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/

[karajorma]

If you are already "snapping physics over your knee" then why simulate Gs?

I think that was kind of NGTM-1R's point. It would be like someone making Freespace and deciding that since space is a vacuum they shouldn't bother with any sounds. If you've already decided to go with a WW1 Planes but in Space approach to dogfighting, it's pretty silly to start going with real world physics rather than just continuing on Rule of Cool.

Incidentally, if SC is so big on realism, are they going to cut out all the sounds?

[FrikgFeek]

If SC is so big on realism why do space fighters even exist? Why aren't lasers completely hitscan?

[Turambar]

If SC is so big on realism why do space fighters even exist? Why aren't lasers completely hitscan?

Why don't you go hang out in a thread for a game you actually like? 

[Phantom Hoover]

the best way to understand what makes games like freespace and elite truly great is to look at the failings of games like star citizen

[Turambar]

the best way to understand what makes games like freespace and elite truly great is to look at the failings of games like star citizen

Star Citizen isnt out yet.