Author Topic: Release: 3.8.0  (Read 7223 times)

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So I have been informed that the overbrightness is actually not caused by PBR but by HDR. And unlike Col. Fishguts claims I cannot make the 3.8.0 look even close to the 3.7.4 with launch parameters.

For these two screenshots, I used "Massive Battle 2" default mission, with following launch parameters for both:

Code: [Select]
-missile_lighting -3dshockwave -post_process -soft_particles -fxaa -fb_explosions -enable_shadows -fb_thrusters -ambient_factor 50 -spec_exp 13 -spec_point 0.4 -spec_static 0.9 -spec_tube 0.4 -ogl_spec 60 -bloom_intensity 30 -fxaa_preset 9 -fov 0.66
 Even when I drop ambient factor down to 10 with 3.8.0, it doesn't make much difference. Also, I don't use -no_emissive_light, because it makes harder to distinguish ships against dark backgrounds. The versions are like night and day:

3.7.4


3.8.0


Honestly the 3.8.0 looks like crap compared to 3.7.4.  :no: So I guess the HDR implementation needs some serious overhaul.

In the meantime I kindly propose that you could disable HDR with launch parameters like you can disable so many other features. I want to use post processing effects but not HDR at the current moment.

I'm sorry if I sound a bit needy or impolite. I just feel that as a longstanding player of FS series, I need to voice my honest opinions sometimes.  :nervous:

 
I suggest you try out 3.8.0 with all the same parameters, but add -no_emissive_light there. Emissive light, if present, seems to be overriding low ambient values.
Excuse me for any spelling errors I make - I'm still learning English :P

 

Offline The E

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Honestly the 3.8.0 looks like crap compared to 3.7.4.  :no: So I guess the HDR implementation needs some serious overhaul.

In the meantime I kindly propose that you could disable HDR with launch parameters like you can disable so many other features. I want to use post processing effects but not HDR at the current moment.

I'm sorry if I sound a bit needy or impolite. I just feel that as a longstanding player of FS series, I need to voice my honest opinions sometimes.  :nervous:

"This looks like crap" is not usable feedback. It's too subjective. It doesn't give a hint what specifically you dislike, and so we cannot tell you what you should do to make the game look better.

So, at the risk of sounding impolite myself: if you have a problem with the way the game looks, try to articulate that problem. Feedback we can't use is feedback we ignore.
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Quote
"This looks like crap" is not usable feedback. It's too subjective. It doesn't give a hint what specifically you dislike, and so we cannot tell you what you should do to make the game look better.

As some others have pointed on this forum, the 3.8.0 is simply just too bright as default, but what's worse is that you can't control the brightness on the same scale as in 3.7.4.

1)
- In 3.7.4 setting different values for -ambient_factor from 10 to 128 give radically different brightness levels for ships as expected. I used value of 70 for the most part
- In 3.8.0 ambient_factor is almost useless. The difference between 10 and 128 is very minimal in comparison. It makes getting that "dark realistic feeling" impossible.

2)
- In 3.8.0 The glowmaps are ridiculously overemphasized. They burn so bright that they have this unrealistic, almost cartoonlike glow emanating from them.

3)
- In 3.8.0 Specular reflections from ships look worse and considerably less realistic or "metallic". What's worse, I can't seem to be able to control the shiny spots, their size or coherence in the same way with launch parameters.

Seeing how 3.7.4 greatly improved graphics compared to 3.7.2 by adding shadows and deferred lighting, the 3.8.0 has been a disappointment graphics-wise so far.

If overbrightness is caused by HDR, then it would be useful to make it optional.

 
Quote
1)
- In 3.7.4 setting different values for -ambient_factor from 10 to 128 give radically different brightness levels for ships as expected. I used value of 70 for the most part
- In 3.8.0 ambient_factor is almost useless. The difference between 10 and 128 is very minimal in comparison. It makes getting that "dark realistic feeling" impossible.
I have suggested that you check out -no_emissive_light on 3.8.0. You seem to have ignored the suggestion. Just try it.

Quote
2)
- In 3.8.0 The glowmaps are ridiculously overemphasized. They burn so bright that they have this unrealistic, almost cartoonlike glow emanating from them.
You can use -bloom_intensity to change that. You can even go down to 0 if you want to turn that glow off.
Excuse me for any spelling errors I make - I'm still learning English :P

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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The associated sensible warnings heeded, is there a performance difference between the 32 bit and 64 bit executables?

 

Offline m!m

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Probably nothing too significant. The 64-bit executables are just there for mods that require more memory and for future proofing.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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 :yes:  Appreciate the swift response. 

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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For reference, Blue Planet Complete with the advanced textures (combined with the advanced textures for the 2014 MediaVPs) can easily run out of memory on 32-bit builds.
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schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

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"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

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<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

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<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Colonol Dekker

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 :yes:
Received and understood.


 

Offline Delta_V

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Ok, quick question regarding the 64-bit Windows builds.  Where do you put the OpenAL32.dll?

I was using the 32-bit Open AL soft (renamed as OpenAL32.dll) directly in my FS2 folder, but now that doesn't work with the 64-bit builds.  I tried putting it in System32 and syswow64, but wxlauncher would not detect it.

edit: Ok, installing it in syswow64 seems to have worked this time, but only for the 3.7.x builds.  3.8 is still giving the "OpenAL32.dll was not found error", but it is detected when I switch to 3.7.4.

edit 2: Ok, got it to work, but what I did didn't make sense. 

1) Taking the 32-bit soft_oal.dll, renaming it OpenAL32.dll, and putting it in System32 -> 3.7.4 gives "OpenAL32.dll not found" while 3.8 gives "unable to start" error. 

2) Putting the same .dll (32-bit soft_oal.dll renamed OpenAL32.dll) in syswow64 -> 3.7.4 works, but 3.8 gives "OpenAL32.dll not found"

3) Taking the 64-bit soft_oal.dll and renaming it OpenAL32.dll, and putting it in System32 -> 3.7.4 gives "OpenAL32.dll not found" while 3.8 works.

4) Putting that .dll (64-bit soft_oal renamed OpenAL32) in syswow64 -> 3.7.4 gives "unable to start" while 3.8 gives "OpenAL32.dll not found"


Using options 1) and 3) simultaneously (32-bit soft_oal.dll renamed and dropped in syswow64; 64-bit soft_oal.dll renamed and dropped in System32) seems to have both 3.8 and 3.7.4 working, with neither throwing an error message.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2017, 04:23:01 pm by Delta_V »

 

Offline DahBlount

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That's because of the weird naming conventions for driver folders on Windows, System32 is actually for all 64-bit drivers and SysWoW64 (which stands for System Windows 32 on Windows 64) holds all 32-bit drivers. So what you currently have working is the correct setup.
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Offline m!m

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I updated the FSO installer configuration files so now the new builds should be available in the installer.

 

Offline Pherim

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Hey, I have a problem with the new version. When I use my Joystick (T.Flight Stick X), as soon as I touch it after a mission starts, the ship starts rolling on its own and doesn't stop any more. This did not happen in older versions. In fact, with 3.7.4 it just says "Microsoft PC Joystick Driver" in the Launcher (Joystick dropdown menu), but with 3.8.0 it actually says "T.Flight Stick X" there. I also cannot select anything else in both versions except "No Joystick".

 

Offline Novachen

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Have you reconfigured the Roll and Throttle Axis in the game?

With SDL2 they are switched in comparsion to older versions. So you have to reconfigure your bindings.
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Offline Pherim

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Oh, you are right! They are switched and I did not reconfigure them. Thank you!

Now that I think about it, maybe I had this problem before and had reconfigured them before? Because in the older version, they are reversed, and now they are correctly configured. Don't really remember. Anyway, it works now.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2017, 03:24:50 pm by Pherim »

 
I am doing a full re-install of Freespace 2 and SCP, am I able to download both the 3.8 release and the 3.7.4 release and choose between them which version to run, or will I have to install only ONE of them?

 

Offline The E

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You can use both side by side.
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So I am up and running with 3.8 and I have to say it is GLORIOUS!  Having tweaked the game with the suggestions here I think it is looking even better than ever!  The only thing is I seem to be getting an odd bug which I wasn't getting before this version which is that some time into the first real mission (escorting the vasudan transports from the NTF waves) that my targeting boxes around ships disappear, my parameters / command line looks as follows:

D:\GOG Galaxy\Games\Freespace 2\fs2_open_3_8_0_x64_SSE2.exe -mod mediavps_3612 -missile_lighting -no_emissive_light -3dshockwave -post_process -soft_particles -fxaa -fb_explosions -fb_thrusters -enable_shadows
-dualscanlines -rearm_timer -ballistic_gauge -3dwarp -warp_flash -ambient_factor 75 -spec_exp 11 -spec_point 0.6 -spec_static 0.8 -spec_tube 0.4 -ogl_spec 60

Maybe DualScanLines is causing the error?

Update DualScanLines is not the issue.  Still not sure what is causing it.  Also it seems to be affecting FSPort as well.  It is strange bug since I've discovered that the targeting box IS there, but it displays the target off-screen, even when the target I am targeting is dead centre on my reticle [proven due to the small arrow that moves around your centre reticle, as well as damaging target]

I have included my log data (or at least I think it is, since %AppData%\Roaming\HardLightProductions\FreeSpaceOpen since there wasn't one generated in that specified location when running the "FS2 Open 3.8.0 (x64 FASTDBG) SEE2"
« Last Edit: October 09, 2017, 05:38:59 pm by instinctepyon »

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Code: [Select]
Initializing OpenGL graphics device at 3840x2160 with 32-bit color...
alas, this is a known issue with resolutions above 1080p that is difficult to diagnose due to HUD coders not having monitors that big
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.