Author Topic: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?  (Read 2470 times)

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Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
I'm using FS2 Open 3.8.0 (also tried 3.7.4), wxLauncher 0.12 RC2, presets off, Default FS2 (All features off) and my game looks like this.



It's been a while since I played FS2, and even longer since I played without MediaVPs, but I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to look this way. What could be going on?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 05:54:12 am by VicRattlehead »

 

Offline The E

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
What's going on is that we changed the lighting model. You get physically accurate per-pixel lighting now regardless of mods selected.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Darn, I can't stand how it looks. What is the last FS2 Open version without it?

 

Offline The E

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
You can go back to the old lighting model by disabling shader support.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
You can go back to the old lighting model by disabling shader support.
Not in 3.8.0.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Firesteel

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Is toggling shaders a feature that might eventually make its way back?
Current Projects:

- Video Critiques of Freespace
- Re-learning FRED

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Is toggling shaders a feature that might eventually make its way back?
Exceedingly unlikely, at this point; someone would probably have to more-or-less rewrite the entire fixed function renderer.
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Codethulhu GitHub wgah'nagl fhtagn.

schrödinbug (noun) - a bug that manifests itself in running software after a programmer notices that the code should never have worked in the first place.

When you gaze long into BMPMAN, BMPMAN also gazes into you.

"I am one of the best FREDders on Earth" -General Battuta

<Aesaar> literary criticism is vladimir putin

<MageKing17> "There's probably a reason the code is the way it is" is a very dangerous line of thought. :P
<MageKing17> Because the "reason" often turns out to be "nobody noticed it was wrong".
(the very next day)
<MageKing17> this ****ing code did it to me again
<MageKing17> "That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'll assume it was being done for a reason."
<MageKing17> **** ME
<MageKing17> THE REASON IS PEOPLE ARE STUPID
<MageKing17> ESPECIALLY ME

<MageKing17> God damn, I do not understand how this is breaking.
<MageKing17> Everything points to "this should work fine", and yet it's clearly not working.
<MjnMixael> 2 hours later... "God damn, how did this ever work at all?!"
(...)
<MageKing17> so
<MageKing17> more than two hours
<MageKing17> but once again we have reached the inevitable conclusion
<MageKing17> How did this code ever work in the first place!?

<@The_E> Welcome to OpenGL, where standards compliance is optional, and error reporting inconsistent

<MageKing17> It was all working perfectly until I actually tried it on an actual mission.

<IronWorks> I am useful for FSO stuff again. This is a red-letter day!
* z64555 erases "Thursday" and rewrites it in red ink

<MageKing17> TIL the entire homing code is held up by shoestrings and duct tape, basically.

 

Offline Firesteel

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Exceedingly unlikely, at this point; someone would probably have to more-or-less rewrite the entire fixed function renderer.

Ouch. As far as maintaining a retail-like experience are the 3.7 releases the best bet at this point?
Current Projects:

- Video Critiques of Freespace
- Re-learning FRED

 
Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
PBR should be optional anyway. I hate how it looks (except for beams which are nice). It's so out of place for Freespace.  :(

The glowing bits (glowmaps?) are especially overemphasized. It cannot be even toned down with launch parameters.

 

Offline m!m

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Ouch. As far as maintaining a retail-like experience are the 3.7 releases the best bet at this point?
That depends on how retail-like the experience should be. If you don't need the new features of newer builds you could stick to 3.7.2 which should be closest to retail graphics but even that had per-pixel lighting so if you don't like that you need to go back further,

PBR should be optional anyway. I hate how it looks (except for beams which are nice). It's so out of place for Freespace.  :(

The glowing bits (glowmaps?) are especially overemphasized. It cannot be even toned down with launch parameters.
You're confusing PBR and HDR. PBR is not used in the majority of mods and especially not with retail data. HDR changes how glowing bits of the screen look and you can change the intensity with the -bloom_intensity command line parameter. The default value s 75.

 

Offline Mito [PL]

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Or you can just launch the F3 lab, it allows you to change bloom intensity on the go. Just choose a vessel and use B and N to change the value (IIRC).
How do you kill a hydra?

You starve it to death.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Couldn't someone make a retro shader mod if they wanted to return the look to normal, or am I misunderstanding here?

 

Offline m!m

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
Someone could do it but it will only work with one version of FSO at a time since the shaders are constantly changing in the nightly builds.

In case it's just the HDR lighting that is the problem here, that can be disabled by disabling post processing effects in the launcher.

 

Offline AV8R

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Re: Specular lighting even without MediaVPs? Can't be disabled?
PBR should be optional anyway. I hate how it looks (except for beams which are nice). It's so out of place for Freespace.  :(

For some reason with the new renderer it's a bit more difficult to get that more realistic, metal look to the models' surface textures. It either looks too glossy (which looks fake/cheap) or too satin (which makes everything look "cartoonish"). If someone has some startup parameters that look pretty good with 3.8 here, could you share them?

I tried a few of the different parameters from the Wiki pages (the page with all of the various users' startup parameters and screenshots here: http://www.hard-light.net/wiki/index.php/Sample_Lighting_Settings). I used to use ColeCampbell666's dark settings - but it just doesn't look the same anymore.

The glowing bits (glowmaps?) are especially overemphasized. It cannot be even toned down with launch parameters.

That was an eye-opener too. Prometheus bolts had big halos around them! I set the bloom intensity parameter down to 10 to get the glows under control.