Author Topic: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread  (Read 13958 times)

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Offline Axem

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
Thank you, kind sir, for your praise. By reading your very selective list, I am glad that you liked... the whole thing. :)

 

Offline CKid

Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
Having a blast and only part way through. I am going to give a review at the end but I just had to give a shout out now. JAD 2.22 has exceeded my expectations in every way. Having great fun and lots of laughs along the way. :D
If I agreed with you, we would both be wrong

 

Online Makhpella

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  • Kharak is burning!
Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
2.21 in progress. I'm really loving JAD. I have one question. I'm at the sixth Beta Tester. Is there anything specific I need to do for Holly to say the 75% line? Out of 6 attempts, I only got it once. And then I was overpowered by friendship. And then I tried again, and nothing happened again.
'I'm from the marksman school of conversation.' -Kovacs

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
That is odd, I've never had that happen before. I guess just keep shooting at the Befriendinator until you get the message. And avoid the friendship beam so you won't get hit!

 

Online Makhpella

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  • Kharak is burning!
Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
I x64d, though I don't remember if I shot at the Core, and nothing happened. I probably did. Anyway, I passed it. Now I'm stuck at the Seventh, which keeps warping out before I bore him with my Epsilon 1 powers. Not for long.

Err, nevermind the Seventh part. Guess you have to shoot instantly, since you're on target.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 01:39:57 pm by Makhpella »
'I'm from the marksman school of conversation.' -Kovacs

 
Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
So I finished JAD 2.22 today. It was pretty damn cool and the cheesy humour worked well. I was cracking a smile most of the time I was going through it. Some of the fail debriefs were especially funny(I personally think using a smoke bomb as a solution for awkward moments is perfectly acceptable). The characters are pretty lovable and everything flowed pretty well.

Buuut... I was really disappointed with the bossfights. That's a bit of a problem since bossfights were like 50% of the gameplay. The bossfights in 2.21 were really cool and full of new mechanics. The bossfights in 2.22 were mostly "shoot the thing while being overwhelmed by 2000 infinitely respawning fighters". It was especially annoying when those infinitely respawning fighters also had cluster missiles.
My entire HUD was circled by yellow missile indicators and the missile lockon warning sound is still ringing in my head. In the mission "Get Revengance" I had to sick Epsilon 1 on the targets while I tried to survive against the infinite waves of Shivans. Any other strategy eventually got me killed because trying to both dodge 200 missiles heading my way and shoot the boss was just too difficult. It was kinda funny the first time it was done but it got really old really fast. I understand the player needs things to kill to fuel the berserk system but like 20 at once is a bit too much while you're supposed to be killing the boss.

I don't want to be a sourpuss but this 2000s mission design isn't really fun for me no matter how ironic it is. It really feels like one of those old and unbalanced messes where throwing infinite fighters at the player while he's supposed to be doing something else was considered fun.
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
Well, it's called insane for a reason. JAD has pretty exclusively been play tested on medium-hard difficulty, and on medium the amount of fighters that can attack you and fire missiles at you is 4. So if there are 5 or 20 fighters around its kind of a moot point, and it rarely becomes actually difficult. On insane, that is of course a different story.

It sucks to hear you didn't have fun because of difficulty, but then why not just turn the difficulty setting down a notch?
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
I mean sure, ideally there should have been ai_profile.tbl that limits the amount of attackers/missile locks to the player a bit. But when your testing a mod that is as absurdly complex as JAD with just two people, things slip between the cracks.

The '2000s mission design' comment stings a bit.
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread

Cat tax for double posting
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
The '2000s mission design' comment stings a bit.

I know, I was totally trying for 1990s. :(

Are you playing insane? I think I missed that but I'm just guessing you are since insane has next to no limits on incoming missiles and attackers (and hard only has 7 missions on the player and 5 enemies targeting them). Admittedly, I never tested anything on insane so this unforeseen side effect was... quite unforeseen. :nervous: I'll introduce a non-insane limit on missiles/hostiles targeting the player in the next patch.

(Also why bring Epsilon 1?????)

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
(Also why bring Epsilon 1?????)
Gotta get all the dialog results.

 
Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
Well, it's not the difficulty per se that killed it. There are technically harder campaigns out there. It's just that the gameplay becomes... kinda monotone and kinda frustrating on insane. I didn't really think of lowering the difficulty because I kinda forgot about the max player attackers and max missiles locked on player ... thing since most mods use saner numbers nowadays. For the other factors it didn't really seem like I'd have more fun if I died 20% slower and had 20% more weapon energy.

$Max Missles Locked on Player:                 2,    3,    4,    7,    99
$Max Player Attackers:                             2,    3,    4,    5,    99

Hey, those numbers are totes retail!

As for Epsilon 1... well I was just couldn't get enough straightman deadpan so I brought him along. Delta 1 would probably have been the saner choice if I knew it would be a mission where your wingman needs to blow up lots of capships.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 12:24:40 pm by FrikgFeek »
[19:31] <MatthTheGeek> you all high up on your mointain looking down at everyone who doesn't beam everything on insane blindfolded

 

Offline Torchwood

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
The script to spawn enemies at runtime is pretty impressive, I'll admit, but it is true that having a constant stream of mooks pouring in nonstop when the focus is supposed to be on the boss is rather distracting, especially on Insane where they have no restrictions on dogpiling and become an actual threat.

Maybe a compromise solution? Rather than an endless respawn that makes it look like there is no progress, have them appear in waves (i.e. check for respawns every 60 seconds, no more than eight mooks at the time, adjust numbers as needed). Enough to build a decent berserk meter, not enough to be overly distracting. The beta tester should be the alpha menace around.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 12:34:08 pm by Torchwood »

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
Well the default spawn cap is 10, so there's usually 10 fighters out for your blood. And unlike other mods, there's a lot less friendlies to draw away enemies too, so that just makes things worse. What you describe indeed doesn't sound that fun. I didn't intend for those mook fighters to be robbing your attention from the bosses so much, they were just supposed to be there for getting powered up, and dropping power ups. (I'd usually just forget about them once I was powered up enough!)

Maybe I'll try to implement Torchwood's idea and see how it goes to make it less hectic.

 

Offline Commander Zane

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
It fits so well using those TTGL tracks in certain missions, now that I've seen it.

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
What's the best rank one can get where Holley has to make a cake in 2.22?  I got all S-rank ingredients but the 'inspectors' said it was like a heap of junk from the Great War.  Any tips?

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
How long are you cooking it for? Be sure the texture reaches a golden brown before turning the engines off. There is a secret sweet spot within that golden brown region that will get you a potential S-Rank cake.

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
How long are you cooking it for? Be sure the texture reaches a golden brown before turning the engines off. There is a secret sweet spot within that golden brown region that will get you a potential S-Rank cake.

I had stopped it when it said golden brown.  I've done that a number of times but still can't seem to get a good rating (even with good ranking ingredients).

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
That is very strange. I will take a look at the mission tomorrow and see what might be wrong.

 

Offline CT27

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Re: Just Another Day: Just Another Discussion Thread
I was able to get a B at one point but that's the best I got.

Thanks for your help and looking into it.