Author Topic: Vasudan history  (Read 23737 times)

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Offline Eishtmo

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Quote
Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Wow... you guys really thought about this didnt you? Or did this come from a source or manual or... or what?


A big imagination, yeah that's a good place to start.  Most of this is guess work, unfortuantly, with some snippets from various sources (FS1, FS2, Freespace Reference Bible, physics, etc).

However, most of this is, at the very least, inaccurate at the moment.  As I've looked into the various subjects a bit more, I'm beginning to get a much clearer view of the FS universe, and these ideas really don't apply much anymore.  I'll redo all this later, but for now it's dead.
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Offline Goober5000

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Eh?  It seems to be pretty valid.

With the possible exception of the Anubis.  You said that the Anubis would be almost fearsome in the early part of the war.  Maybe used in a swarm situation like it's supposed to, but I would think that one-on-one any fighter could easily take down an Anubis.

 

Offline Lightspeed

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thats wrong.

The anubis has quick, strong firepower.

Kind of an alpha strike weapon. Can quickly deliver deadly payload but hasn't much 'endurance' ;)

Anubis is indeed fearsome.
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Offline Goober5000

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But wait.  If you're going to build tons of Anubises for swarm situations, you would want them to be quite cheap.  So you probably wouldn't make them very strong or give them good weapons.

If you make them strong, then you won't want to waste them on swarms.

Of course, they could be strong in Chapter 2 and then become weaker as the war goes on.  But still, you have a swarm of Anubises destroying the Goliath only two years into the war.

 

Offline Lightspeed

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Strong + cheap = possible in this case.

Look, I put some uber-cool weapon on the anubis.

The ammo if (of course) really expensive.

But that's the trick. The Anubis doesn't need much ammo. It's a "30-second" fighter. It can deal massive damage, but only for a very short time.

Who cares if the ammo is out soon? Who cares if the reactor overheats? Who cares if subsystems tend to fail? Who cares if the ship will break after a few years anyway?

The anubis is a cheap short-lived ship, that's why it's cheap to build.
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Offline Goober5000

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:wtf: You're not making any sense.  If it's strong, it performs well and lasts long.  And strong tends to be expensive.

 

Offline Taristin

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No.
You're wrong.
Strength =/= durability.

It makes perfect sense. It has powerful ammo. But the amount it carries is very limited. When it runs out of ammo is when it probably resorts to fleeing or kamikaze.  Possibly at full throttle, random subsystems begin to fail catastrophically...
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Offline Goober5000

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Strong can apply to both weapon strength and hull strength.  If you invest in a strong hull or you invest in powerful weapons, you wouldn't want to simply throw the fighter away.

 

Offline Blaise Russel

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Anubis = swarm fighter. It brings people down under the sheer weight of fire.

Ever been in a mission where you're surrounded by hostiles and can't take any of them down because you're constantly having to take pot shots at the fighters behind you so they stop shooting you for a second (and don't say you have because you've played Homesick :ick: )?

That's how the Anubis operates. Sure, you can take one down easily enough in a matter of seconds, but when confronted with five or six of them to your single fighter, taking even one of them down suddenly becomes a lot more complicated...

 

Offline Goober5000

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Offline Lightspeed

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Quote
Originally posted by Goober5000
Strong can apply to both weapon strength and hull strength.  If you invest in a strong hull or you invest in powerful weapons, you wouldn't want to simply throw the fighter away.


you can build them really crappy and cheap though, since they can go "kaput" anytime - They don't have to be long-lasting quality.

You just take a ship, pack it with some explosives, and off it goes.

The ammo will be *quite* limited -- it's just:

1) swarm the enemy

2) shoot them down (doesn't matter if 90% of the anubis explode)

3) get back

The Anubis only has to last about 5 hours, it's like a one-time syringe.
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Offline Zarax

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Kinda reminds me about ME 163...
Fast, with heavy firepower but fragile, with really scarce ammo and very short ranged...
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Funny, I was thinking the He-162.  After all, the ME-163's primary advantage is its speed, while the Anibus doesn't even have afterburners, so I think it is better compared to the He-162.

Later!
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Offline Akalabeth Angel

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Vasudan Military Doctrine:

  It seems to me that the Vasudan military is sort of vulcan in their doctrine. The needs of the many, outwiegh the needs of the few. What this translates into is the idea that what's important is the Vasudan war effort as a whole, and not the individual soldier.

   As a result, we have Vasudan Destroyers, Cruisers and even Freighters which are all superior to their Terran equivelants with better armor and weapons. But then they have cheap fighters, with little armour (and later little shields). Whereas the Terrans use decent ships (less armoured and gunned), but better fighters. Because, to the Terrans the measure of worth on an individual is higher, whereas the Vasudans are more willing to sacrifice thier lives for the greater good (ie Kamikaze attacks).

   The crux of the Vasudan philosophy boils down to their escape pods which are designed to carry information, not Vasudans, to safety.

   As for the Anubis, I think that it many ways the Vasudans can be compared to WW2-era japanese. The Anubis, likewise as a weak yet potent fighter can be compared to some versions of the Zero or some other fighter which had paper thin armor but a big honking 30mm cannon which could blow apart any other fighter in the sky.

    One asks "how can a fighter be deadly yet cheap?". It's simple, the Anubis is built is such large numbers that it is cheap. It's like buying in Bulk, the more you buy, the cheaper it is. It's also why something like the Erinyes or the Ares is an expensive craft in the GTVA, not only is it expensive in the first place, but not many of them are built so its doubly expensive. The Anubis is just the opposite. Its fairly cheap, but build a lot of them and then its really cheap.

 

Offline Taristin

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But it was quick. Well, quick enough to be annoying.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Quote
Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
  As for the Anubis, I think that it many ways the Vasudans can be compared to WW2-era japanese. The Anubis, likewise as a weak yet potent fighter can be compared to some versions of the Zero or some other fighter which had paper thin armor but a big honking 30mm cannon which could blow apart any other fighter in the sky.


For the record, AFAIK most Japanese fighters, Zero included, typically mounted 20mm cannons as their heavy weapon of choice, and I believe that the Zero was the lightest aircraft to mount these.  Typical weaponry on the Zero was 2 7.7mm machine guns in the fuselage firing synchronized with the propeller, and a single 20mm cannon in each wing, outside the propeller arc.  If you want 30mm cannons, I suggest you look to German WW2 aircraft.  One variant of the Me-262A mounted 4 30mm and 2 20mm cannons... I wouldn't want to be a B-17 when a pilot of one of those turns his attention my way.

And now, back to the thread.

Later!
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Offline Akalabeth Angel

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Well, way back in the days of my 4 MB of ram I played Aces of the Pacific, some WW2 flight sim and I recall flying some japanese plane with either a 30mm or a 35mm cannon or something which had only a few rounds of ammo. It may have been even one of those Bomber-types or I could just be wrong, as it was a long time ago.

 

Offline Trivial Psychic

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Ya, I had Aces of the Pacific too.  I can't remember the exact name of the plane, but it was a larger, twin engine design that even had a tail gunner.  It had a 37mm in the nose and a 20mm in each engine nacelle IIRC, but planes like this should be considered the exception.  Even the US rarely used the 37mm (P-36 Airocobra comes to mind)... in fact, they rarely even used the 20mm, opting for .50 cal machine guns in groups of 4, 6, or 8.  As I said, the Germans were the big users of the 30mm, mostly the MK108, though I liked the MK103 better for its armor piercing ammunition and higher muzzle velocity, despite its larger size and greater difficulty to mass produce.

Later!
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Offline Zarax

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Quote
Originally posted by Akalabeth Angel
Well, way back in the days of my 4 MB of ram I played Aces of the Pacific, some WW2 flight sim and I recall flying some japanese plane with either a 30mm or a 35mm cannon or something which had only a few rounds of ammo. It may have been even one of those Bomber-types or I could just be wrong, as it was a long time ago.


Can't exactly remember the name but it was the japanese variant of the ME110, with two 20mm and one 37mm cannon...
The Ki45 IIRC... Loved that one in Aces of the Pacific, too bad that it won't run in more modern PCs...
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Offline Flaser

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Won't run?

Never say never...

Have you tried moslow? VDMS Sound? Compatibility mode in WinXP/2000? nolfb for VESA support?

I have this nack for playing relativly old games, and there are tons of options out there.

If everything else falls you could try Dosbox or VitualPc (the best option if you properly set it up, though I lacked the patience and managed to have almost everything running on my current system.)

BTW the general idea of Bushido or Jappanese honour is a bit flawed - it's not that they valued the person less (though the lack of a Platonistic environment also enforces such a behavior) it's more that they took their duty dead sersiouly.
"I was going to become a speed dealer. If one stupid fairytale turns out to be total nonsense, what does the young man do? If you answered, “Wake up and face reality,” you don’t remember what it was like being a young man. You just go to the next entry in the catalogue of lies you can use to destroy your life." - John Dolan