Author Topic: Ranger class versus Concordia class  (Read 14652 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
Ranger class versus Concordia class
Something that always confused me about Wing Commander 3 and 4 carriers.  The Victory (WC3) and the Lexington (WC4) are infact different classes.  The Victory is a Ranger class light carrier and apparently is quite old and beaten up in WC3 time.  The Lexington is apparently a Concordia class carrier, lacks two laser turrets from the Ranger, and seems to be newer or at least retrofitted.  Note: the TCS Concordia belongs to the Confederation class and has nothing to do with this question :)

Whats the difference?  Is there anything else that I'm missing?
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Tolwyn

  • The Admiral
  • Administrator
  • 214
  • Ridiculously Old Fraud
    • Wing Commander Saga
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Fighter complement ;)
Wing Commander Saga: A Legend Is Reborn | WingCenter
 
Tolwyn’s reputation for risk taking with other people’s lives was considered  to understate the facts. The admiral’s willingness to sacrifice anyone or anything to achieve his objectives had long been lauded in the popular press. He was “the man who got things done”.- Colonel Blair

No errors, no random CTDs, just pure fun and proof of why getting hit with missiles is a bad thing.
-WC Saga's beta tester


Report Wing Commander Saga bugs with Mantis

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Concordia theoretically carries more?  In the extra 20 meters difference in space? :)
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline KeldorKatarn

  • Moderator
  • 211
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Well I think the Concordia class is a little more than just a retrofitted Yorktown (official name for the old Ranger-class)

After all, Eisen mentioned he'd been communications officer on the Victory's maiden voyage. Look how old Eisen is. If we assume he's as old as the actor and he was communications officer aound the age Rollins is, (I don't know if the characters' age was ever mentioned somewhere), then the Victory had her maiden voyage over 30 years before WC3. That puts it pretty much at the beginning of the Kilrathi war. I think the novel mentioned the design itself was a pre-war design even.

So I doubt they retrofitted a 50 year old design at the time of WC4. I think the thing just happens to look about the same, but probably has a totally different internal layout.

We all know it is simply a reused model for the game, but if you want an in-universe explanation, I think after 50 years, more modern armor, more modern structural designs, smaller more effective reactors etc would make more than enough room for additional fighter complements etc.

The sources are very very problematic anyway. Read the WC4 novel. Forstchen totally missunderstood the name "Concordia class" and actually describes the Lexington to be of the same class as the TCS Concordia. Even mentions that Blair is getting the office he knew so well from his time aboard the Concordia when Angel held that office.

So you can pretty much make anything up about the Concordia class. I personally consider it a very new design for a medium fleet carrier that is bigger than the Yorktown and just happens to look similar from the outside but has a radically different internal layout.
That is... when I bother about that at all :P which usally isn't the case.

To over-discuss such things makes about as much sense as arguing Star Wars physics (a thing that is not present even according to G.L. himself ;) )

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Oh I totally agree about over discussing such things.  I'm actually re-reading the book right now...I think I may have a go at trying to make WC4 work under Vista as I kind of want to play that game (I have to admit I really liked flying the Bearcat...nobody else did :) and the story is fun) but I wanted to figure out the whole carrier class thing.  See what the angles were on the subject.

In my mind I can go with, similar design, redesigned in interior, slightly larger...much newer. I can handle that.

On another note: the WC4 novel is really weird...totally breaks from the game. The two aren't even reconcilable.  But whatever :)  ...both are canon :D
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 

Offline Stormkeeper

  • Interviewer Extraordinaire
  • 211
  • Boomz!
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
I keep misreading Concordia as Cordova. So first time I saw the topic i was like, wtf. A Cordova class ?
Ancient-Shivan War|Interview Board

Member of the Scooby Doo Fanclub. And we're not talking a cartoon dog here people!!

 

Offline KeldorKatarn

  • Moderator
  • 211
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Oh I totally agree about over discussing such things.  I'm actually re-reading the book right now...I think I may have a go at trying to make WC4 work under Vista as I kind of want to play that game (I have to admit I really liked flying the Bearcat...nobody else did :) and the story is fun) but I wanted to figure out the whole carrier class thing.  See what the angles were on the subject.

In my mind I can go with, similar design, redesigned in interior, slightly larger...much newer. I can handle that.

On another note: the WC4 novel is really weird...totally breaks from the game. The two aren't even reconcilable.  But whatever :)  ...both are canon :D

I personally do not consider the WC4 novel very canon. It has some interesting developments, like Blair being an alkoholic to some degree, which would make a little sense, especially when you go to WCP and see how he REALLY had problems with his past, Kilrah, Angel and all that.

But the storyline itself it dictated by the games.

In many large universes like Star Wars e.g. one bascially has to decide at one point for a hierarchy of sources. The primary source in the Star Wars Saga is always the movies. No book can override that. (The books in which Luke is searching for his mother e.g. which were contradicted by the new trilogy)

In WC the primary source has got to be the games. So I do not take anything as in-universe that happened in the novel that is contradicting the game. That means Catscratch fell in love with Sosa. Not Blair :P
Too bad they now officially made Catscratch survive WC4. I thought it would have been more dramatically correct if he had died... I wonder if he married Sosa :P

 

Offline Haliwali

  • 26
  • Cake is a lie.
    • Myspace. Please be my friend
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
I haven't had a chance t read the books yet, but the general feeling I've gotten from the fan community is that defining what is canon can sometimes be a minefield. As for the movie... well I like to pretend that it was something from a different universe altogether, having nothing to do with the actual game universe.
The cake is a Lie.

 They littered the beach as dense as a crowded Tokyo street during a Final Fantasy release riot. The slow, tottering advance only heightened the suspense of this freakishly ironic scene.

The turtles were revolting,
and nobody could stop them.

First they came for the Jedi,
and I did not speak out.
because I was not a Jedi.
Then they came for the giant robots.
and I did not speak out
because I was not a giant robot.
Then they came for the Nerds,
and I was screwed.

Sparkly Weasel, meet Forceful Chainsaw

 
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
I haven't had a chance t read the books yet, but the general feeling I've gotten from the fan community is that defining what is canon can sometimes be a minefield. As for the movie... well I like to pretend that it was something from a different universe altogether, having nothing to do with the actual game universe.

     Hey speaking of the movie, when is the WCS team going to model those excellent Terran fightercraft?  :lol:

 

Offline gevatter Lars

  • Another wingnut
  • Moderator
  • 213
    • http://gevatter_lars.tripod.com/
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
To kinda quote something from the movie "You are talking about a fighter that never existed"
I know there are some people who actually like the design but I doubt that we will ever see it in Saga. Its simply to old to fit in the timeline. ^_^
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
To kinda quote something from the movie "You are talking about a fighter that never existed"
I know there are some people who actually like the design but I doubt that we will ever see it in Saga. Its simply to old to fit in the timeline. ^_^

     Some people actually like the design? Who's that? Heinz Tomatoes Inc?

 

Offline IceFire

  • GTVI Section 3
  • 212
    • http://www.3dap.com/hlp/hosted/ce
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Mmmm Heinz.... :)

Yeah the WC movie is a fun movie to watch for me...largely because of the fan aspect.  Its dramatic, it has awesome music, and it has cool space battles with some very decent CGI, but as far as fitting in with the WC games...just doesn't work for me.  Thats ok.  I can deal with that in my head.  I know it makes some people explode however :)
- IceFire
BlackWater Ops, Cold Element
"Burn the land, boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me..."

 
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Mmmm Heinz.... :)

Yeah the WC movie is a fun movie to watch for me...largely because of the fan aspect.  Its dramatic, it has awesome music, and it has cool space battles with some very decent CGI, but as

        Eh, yeah, except for the "they're coming out of the node one at a time and we're killing them piecemeal in a leisurely fashion". That wasn't particular cool or exciting. But the movie doesn't make my head explode, since I'm not really a WC fan in the first place (It probably would've helped if I'd played any of the games - though I played Privateer a bit).

 

Offline gevatter Lars

  • Another wingnut
  • Moderator
  • 213
    • http://gevatter_lars.tripod.com/
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
I agree that I liked the movies CGI quality and music. The story wasn't that good. To much "Das Boot" in space. Its ok for a popcorn cinema but its hard to see as a WC movie. I think just keeping more of the original designs would have even improved it as a WC movie.

Still its nice to view, kinda fun. Next one will be better ^_^
"Yes! That is my plan, and I see nothing wrong with it. I figure that if I stick to a stupid strategy long enough it might start to work."
 - comment to "Robotech: The Masters"

 

Offline Haliwali

  • 26
  • Cake is a lie.
    • Myspace. Please be my friend
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
I'm not really a WC fan in the first place

HEATHEN! BRING THE FIRE SO WE MAY PURGE THE UNCLEAN.
Sorry... I get a bit carried away sometimes.
The cake is a Lie.

 They littered the beach as dense as a crowded Tokyo street during a Final Fantasy release riot. The slow, tottering advance only heightened the suspense of this freakishly ironic scene.

The turtles were revolting,
and nobody could stop them.

First they came for the Jedi,
and I did not speak out.
because I was not a Jedi.
Then they came for the giant robots.
and I did not speak out
because I was not a giant robot.
Then they came for the Nerds,
and I was screwed.

Sparkly Weasel, meet Forceful Chainsaw

 
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
I'm not really a WC fan in the first place

HEATHEN! BRING THE FIRE SO WE MAY PURGE THE UNCLEAN.
Sorry... I get a bit carried away sometimes.

     Not saying it sucks I just never got into it. Played a bit of Privateer, and read End Run.
     And that's about it.

 
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Mmmm Heinz.... :)

Yeah the WC movie is a fun movie to watch for me...largely because of the fan aspect.  Its dramatic, it has awesome music, and it has cool space battles with some very decent CGI, but as

        Eh, yeah, except for the "they're coming out of the node one at a time and we're killing them piecemeal in a leisurely fashion". That wasn't particular cool or exciting. But the movie doesn't make my head explode, since I'm not really a WC fan in the first place (It probably would've helped if I'd played any of the games - though I played Privateer a bit).

Yeah but the novels and background from before the movie explain why they go through the jump point one by one. If they don't they risk jumping into each other and destroying themselves.

 

Offline The E

  • He's Ebeneezer Goode
  • 213
  • Nothing personal, just tech support.
    • Steam
    • Twitter
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Yay, another two-year-old discussion that learned to walk again!


Note: Please don't do that.
If I'm just aching this can't go on
I came from chasing dreams to feel alone
There must be changes, miss to feel strong
I really need lifе to touch me
--Evergrey, Where August Mourns

 

Offline Arrow

  • Denglish Interpreter
  • 28
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
Some information about the TCS Lexington can be found here: http://wingcommander.wikia.com/wiki/TCS_Lexington_%28CV-44%29. Given the fact that the ship was practically rebuilt from top to bottom with only its overall hull design left, it´s realistic to believe it carries much more fighters than the older Yorktown class. At least Blair and Eisen were quite impressed by the ship´s interior in WC4 but rather disillusioned with the outfit of the Victory in WC3, which could imply that remaining Yorktowns usually stand back leaving the ships largely as they were designed decades ago. Question is, how many fighters were Concordia-class vessels designed to carry, originally? Should we really compare an up to date and refitted Concordia-class with a totally outdated and poorly outfitted Yorktown?

 
Re: Ranger class versus Concordia class
I was always curious why you never saw more Bengal class carriers. consider. it would seem to me that it would have made sense to see some of the tigers claw's shorter sister ships.