[General Battuta]

2. A chick Spec Ops.

The term is 'woman' and she's a sniper. The Soviet Union alone proves that many of history's best snipers have been women.

[TrashMan]

There are no women in Spec Ops. For a reason. Especially not supermodel looking ones. We've been trough this before.

[SpardaSon21]

Please, no, can we just not have this conversation and instead go "hot chick with a sniper rifle, oh yeah..."?

[General Battuta]

There are no women in Spec Ops. For a reason. Especially not supermodel looking ones. We've been trough this before.

There are plenty of female snipers. We've been through this before.

There's also no reason an individual woman couldn't qualify for a SpecOps force. We've also been through that before.

Nor does anything in the publicity materials that I've read said that this woman is Spec Ops.

Nor, for that matter, does physical attractiveness have any bearing on physical fitness.

[SpardaSon21]

Battuta, TrashMan, please take this to PM's as I really don't want a minor flame war starting in this thread, which is supposed to be about us talking about how awesome having a bunch of tough-ass bastards (and a tough-ass *****) go up a whole crapload of predators is.

[General Battuta]

Battuta, TrashMan, please take this to PM's as I really don't want a minor flame war starting in this thread, which is supposed to be about us talking about how awesome having a bunch of tough-ass bastards (and a tough-ass *****) go up a whole crapload of predators is.

Please be quiet and leave the moderating to the moderators.

This discussion should last all of ten seconds since he's jumping at shadows anyway. The movie isn't about a Spec Ops unit. There's no reason to worry about the realism of having a woman in a Spec Ops unit since this isn't one.

[Colonol Dekker]

Please be quiet and leave the moderating to the moderators.

Solves any issues afaic.


Carry on ^_^

[Blue Lion]

There seems to be an awful lot of splits recently.

[mxlm]

Maybe that's reflective of our benevolent overlords' personal lives.

ZING!

And, yes, Batman's right.

[Liberator]

If we're gonna break reality with "OMG HAWT CHIX WITH SNIPERZ!", can we get few clothes on her please?

[NGTM-1R]

If we're gonna break reality with "OMG HAWT CHIX WITH SNIPERZ!", can we get few clothes on her please?

That's not exactly breaking reality. Unless your reality is radically different from mine.

The clothes bit, however, is a good point. Somebody break out the ghille suits.

[Dilmah G]

Alright.

New Zealand allows women into the SAS, and have been doing so for the last few years. Whilst I hold the belief that the majority of women I know would do poorly in the military, I believe that's due to the fact society says "You shouldn't like guns! You shouldn't play contact sport! You shouldn't be put under severe pressure in a hurt or be hurt environment!" Rather than the fact they're women.

There are no women in Spec Ops. For a reason. Especially not supermodel looking ones. We've been trough this before.

If a special ops unit trained properly, any girls in the unit should basically be 'one of the guys', because if they're thought of as/act like anything else, the survival of your unit is at stake. That girl on sigsop is not a 'girl' anymore, that's your best mate, and if she goes down, you'll be bloody picking her up and giving her first-aid because she'll do the same for you, and every other man and woman in the unit.

Battuta, TrashMan, please take this to PM's as I really don't want a minor flame war starting in this thread, which is supposed to be about us talking about how awesome having a bunch of tough-ass bastards (and a tough-ass *****) go up a whole crapload of predators is.

Please be quiet and leave the moderating to the moderators.

Uncalled for in my opinion, Battuta.

[Fury]

The term is 'woman'

Is it wrong if I refer to a man by "guy", "dude", "mate", "brotha", etc. etc. Man, don't be such a carpet.

[TrashMan]

The woman in the trailer did mention she was SpecOps...unless that trailer was put together so that the sentance is out of context.


The physical differences in males and females are evident and documented. Hard facts. World records and performance difference between men and woman are also well documented.

For Spec Ops, you're forming an elite team. The best. Best male soldiers will outperform best female soldiers, just like best male athletes outperform best female athletes.

If there are women in special forces in any country, than that would be due to political meddling and nothing else.

Harsh truth that many don't wish to hear (and will immediately label it as chauvinism), but there you have it.

This discussion should last all of ten seconds since he's jumping at shadows anyway.

There's really nothing to discuss here. Facts are facts. You might as well try to convince me gravity doesn't exist, if you want to go against them so much.

[Dilmah G]

Trashman, the concept of a 'barrier test' is foreign to you, is it not? If a woman should be able to exhibit the mental and physical toughness necessary for admission to a Special Forces training program (as well as the other obvious necessaries), then why the hell not?

Fair enough, men may be able to outperform girls, but if that girl can meet the standard, and pass Special Forces training, then by all means, she should be allowed to join. Rather than saying "no, you cannot meet the standard." Opening it up for women to try, is fine and harms no-one.

If you screen every woman on Earth, of course you're going to find that the majority are unsuitable for combat, but you may also find a minority are able to go the hard yards under fire and hack being in a spec ops unit. I'm all for letting that minority at it.

[TrashMan]

Pft..you do know that test restrictions are lower(ed) for women?

You also fail to realise that if you lower the restrictions enough, sure a woman might pass. But by the same time you'll have a thousand males who passed the test.

And you're taking in only 100 people out of a total of 1000 candidates...why would you take that woman in if you have 500 males who STILL outperform her.
It's your life on the line here. If a male candidate outperformed a woman even by a miniscule margin, Id' still choose him over her, since it's my life on the line (if I'm making the team), and even a milisecond could mean the difference between life and death.

Spec Ops are by definition SMALL groups of the best you can find.


For an example, let's compare it to the world of sport. The Williams sisters are top-notch in tennis right? They're big and burly and packed with steroid, they're manly woman.
And when one of then played a match against a male, who was 200 and something on the ATP list and I've never even heard of him, he beat her soundly.

[Dilmah G]

For ****'s sake man! WE ARE NOT LOWERING ANY ****ING STANDARDS.

A man or woman will meet the same standard or go home.

I don't care if she's outperformed by a male, if she can hack it in a special ops environment (that includes suppressing the menstrual cycle and making sure her buddies keep it in their pants, which is by far the larger issue), then there's little reason to discriminate against her on a physiological basis.

If you trial a group of men and women, and a woman scores in the top 50 for selection to a special ops program, then it'd be stupid not to take her.

By the way, I'd recommend you all read this.

[Herra Tohtori]

Nor, for that matter, does physical attractiveness have any bearing on physical fitness.

They certainly have a tendency to correlate. Physical fitness is usually considered attractive for both sexes, which makes perfect sense from evolutionary sense. A healthy person in good physical condition is typically vital and active, which are often also seen as attractive traits.

Typically, however, features that show good physical conditioning and performance are associated to males (physical size, muscle tone), while features that are interpreted as signs of healthyness and good nutritional condition are associated to females (a certain amount of fat in strategic locations [nudge nudge wink wink], healthy skin and hair, symmetrical features).

Causation, however, is not guaranteed - attractiveness does not cause physical fitness. I'll leave it an exercise to reader to figure out what this means.

[Dilmah G]

By the way, tell me this woman cannot do her job.

[TrashMan]

For ****'s sake man! WE ARE NOT LOWERING ANY ****ING STANDARDS.

Alas, they do. As shown by some studies, women undergoing the same trails as men (for marine acceptance) have shown to be far more prone to injuries, especially back injuries, since they have to force themselves so much.
You will find out that standard for women are lowered in most, if not all cases.

I don't care if she's outperformed by a male, if she can hack it in a special ops environment, then there's little reason to discriminate against her on a physiological basis.

If you trial a group of men and women, and a woman scores in the top 50 for selection to a special ops program, then it'd be stupid not to take her.

**** psychological basis. I'm talking purely physical. The thing is that she won't score in the top 50, and if she does, you'll be taking in the top 10, so she's still out.