Author Topic: Towards A Better Cockpit  (Read 13792 times)

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Towards A Better Cockpit
Hello, friends!  I'm in the midst of designing (another) ship, and in the interest of making it as capable and flexible a model as possible, I'm designing it with the possibility of a cockpit view.  (As the cockpit view project is updated, so too will be my releases of this model.)  But here's my question:  I assume the show-ship tag only shows the cockpit .pof?  The reason I ask is that several external parts of the ship are visible from the cockpit, including some thrust nozzles and guns.  Of course in my ideal world, once the cockpit thing is fully functional, a player using cockpit view would be able to see the guns and nozzles firing.

So I guess the question is in two parts.  First of all, will be necessary to include those external components visible from the cockpit in the cockpit .pof to see them from cockpit view?  Second, if so--and this one is a stretch, I know--can anyone conceive of a way to make those guns and nozzles work visibly from inside the cockpit?

Thanks in advance.

 

Offline Spoon

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
Not a expert in cockpits but as far as I know, the show ship flag does just that. It makes the player's ship model visible. So that includes guns, wings and all that jizz.
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Offline The E

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
Yes, show-ship shows the entire ship. If the eyepoint is inside the cockpit, you'll get to see everything the pilot sees. See this vid for a demonstration.
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Offline Nuke

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
its why i prefer show ship over having a cockpit model. it allows you to see whats going on with your ship. it does slightly impede performance however since the full detail cockpit model would be externally visible. you can get around this by doing a big drop in detail from cockpit lod0 to lod1 and using a short er detail distance for the ships lod1. i kinda wish subobjects would use different detail distances and different distance calculations than the hull, so you can do this without effecting the loding of the ship hull.
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Offline Dragon

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
i kinda wish subobjects would use different detail distances and different distance calculations than the hull, so you can do this without effecting the loding of the ship hull.
Ever heard about detail boxes?

 

Offline Aardwolf

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
i kinda wish subobjects would use different detail distances and different distance calculations than the hull, so you can do this without effecting the loding of the ship hull.
Ever heard about detail boxes?

No, he's talking about subsystem LODs. Which are possibly anyway, I think. There was a discussion about it recently, anyway.

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
Hello, friends!  I'm in the midst of designing (another) ship, and in the interest of making it as capable and flexible a model as possible, I'm designing it with the possibility of a cockpit view.  (As the cockpit view project is updated, so too will be my releases of this model.)  But here's my question:  I assume the show-ship tag only shows the cockpit .pof?  The reason I ask is that several external parts of the ship are visible from the cockpit, including some thrust nozzles and guns.  Of course in my ideal world, once the cockpit thing is fully functional, a player using cockpit view would be able to see the guns and nozzles firing.

So I guess the question is in two parts.  First of all, will be necessary to include those external components visible from the cockpit in the cockpit .pof to see them from cockpit view?  Second, if so--and this one is a stretch, I know--can anyone conceive of a way to make those guns and nozzles work visibly from inside the cockpit?

Thanks in advance.

As said... Show Ship shows the player ship.  This is where you place your cockpit inside the actual ship.  The cockpit .pof you're referring to is the second way of displaying a cockpit, unfortunately it's not working correctly yet. (unless it's been fixed and i've noticed)


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Offline Dragon

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
Separate cockpit model worked for me, but I didn't used along with "Show Ship" flag.
Setting both on one ship may cause it to look weird.

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
Separate cockpit model worked for me, but I didn't used along with "Show Ship" flag.
Setting both on one ship may cause it to look weird.

Can you send me the max file, pof and table for the model?  Maybe then I can figure out what's wrong.
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
The external cockpit pof worked for me two, even if i use to experiment scoobydoo's problem one time (i ve remodeled the cockpit and had no more problem)

The only problem with the externe cockpit pof is that if you choose to switch for another ship who has cockpit view too in a mission, the cockpit won't be displayed anymore...
$Formula: ( every-time
   ( has-time-elapsed "0" )
   ( Do-Nothing
   )
   ( send-message
      "#Dalek"
      "High"
      "Pro-crasti-nate"
   )
   )
)
+Name: Procratination
+Repeat Count: 99999999999
+Interval: 1

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
I've taken the entire cockpit out of the model and it's still messed up.

BTW what does your model look like?  Is it built from one object or several subobjects?
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
Two object in fact,
The cockpit and the "viewable hull"
$Formula: ( every-time
   ( has-time-elapsed "0" )
   ( Do-Nothing
   )
   ( send-message
      "#Dalek"
      "High"
      "Pro-crasti-nate"
   )
   )
)
+Name: Procratination
+Repeat Count: 99999999999
+Interval: 1

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
Nope, that didn't help... I though you meant every polygon was attached to each other (i.e. when you select subsystem in Max everything gets selected).
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
I've use Mediavps ships with glass changed to invisible texture, set them as cockpit models for "real" ships (that was to avoid the problem with things reflecting inside glass, it's annoying, happens on latest builds and should be fixed) and it worked flawlessly (aside from being an ugly hack, that is).
Note that I also removed "show ship" flag from them.

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
So what I'm thinking is this:  Use show-ship, construct the ship as normal, and (in Blender) parent the cockpit model to the main hull in detail0.  I will actually have two cockpit models, one the hyper-detailed cockpit as viewed from inside, and the other the less-detailed cockpit with visible pilot.  Detail box the cockpit models so that you see the detailed, internal version if you're inside like... five meters or something, and use the same settings for the external cockpit model, except set $detail_box: -1 so that you see it if you're outside the ship--in other words, if you're not the pilot.  In that way, I'll be using it as a sort of selective LOD.

In my overly active imagination, this would show the cockpit model if you're controlling a ship, since your distance from it would ideally be 0.  If you're not controlling the ship, unless you get a clipping error and somehow manage to lodge your ship inside my model, you'll never see the detailed cockpit, and that's just as well because a) you don't need to and b) there's no pilot in that model, so it would just be an empty cockpit.  But whether or not you're actually piloting the ship, if you're within range of the detail0 LOD, you'll see the same hull, so you'll still see working firepoints and maneuvering jets when you look out the window of the ship.

In fact I got a little fancier than that and made more detailed models of some of the parts of the ship that you can see from inside the cockpit, since they, like the cockpit, will be something that you have to look at up close the entire time you play.  They're not even separate objects in the model, though--they're part of the mesh of the different cockpit models, just not connected at any vertices and placed in the exact right relative positions.

Sooooo does anyone see any hole in my logic here, using 3.6.12 Inferno and 3.6.10 Inferno?

And if anyone (especially Scooby--hot damn, dude) has any hot tips about texturing with GIMP beyond the tutorials... you know, feel free to share.  I freely admit that I've been extracting models and texture maps from other people's .vp's, trying to learn a thing or two from their work.

Oh and one more thing, off-topic.  I'm actually making two versions of the model, one contemporary to FS2 and another one based on near-future projections of space flight technology.  It would be a museum piece in the FreeSpace universe.  I've designed it with (to a certain extent) real life physics in mind, so I have considerations for center of gravity, g-forces on the pilot and hull, energy conservation and so on.  In my mind, it's from a conflict from before humanity left the Sol system and one of the first ever dedicated space fighters designed, in some sort of interplanetary conflict.  Has there been any interest in this sort of modding?  I know there's a campaign about the origins of the 103rd, but I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't played it yet, so I'm not sure where it happens in the FreeSpace timeline.  If you're into this kind of stuff, let me know and we'll do some brainstorming.  I'll be releasing both versions of this model as soon as I can get it textured and struggle my way through PCS1 and ModelView32.  (My onboard laptop graphics card is one of those friggin Intel cards, with a custom driver for this laptop no less, just to make good and sure that I can't update it.  It doesn't support all the OpenGL that PCS2 needs.  If anyone has found a way around this, I would love to join the PCS2 party.)

Thanks a lot, guys!  You've been really helpful, and I'm glad this discussion is happening.

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
I think I solved my problem finally (at least for the bearcat)

I created a simple box and name it detail0.
I link both the cockpit AND what's viewable of the ships hull to that.

Edit: Does anyone remember how to pan around with your joystick?

« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 05:28:58 am by Scooby_Doo »
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
This has desapeared with the track ir stuff, but you can target a ship and use the track view (not sure about the name)
$Formula: ( every-time
   ( has-time-elapsed "0" )
   ( Do-Nothing
   )
   ( send-message
      "#Dalek"
      "High"
      "Pro-crasti-nate"
   )
   )
)
+Name: Procratination
+Repeat Count: 99999999999
+Interval: 1

 

Offline Swifty

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Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
It's called "Target Padlock View" in the Misc options of the Controls Config. Select a target and toggle it on to fix your viewpoint in the direction of your target.

 
Re: Towards A Better Cockpit
It's called "Target Padlock View" in the Misc options of the Controls Config. Select a target and toggle it on to fix your viewpoint in the direction of your target.

That's the target padlock view, what I was looking for was the free padlock view where you could use the joystick's tophat to look round anywheres.

Edit: It works good enough for now I guess...


« Last Edit: June 21, 2010, 05:29:19 am by Scooby_Doo »
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"