[Kosh]

The general opinion of it has been for a great many years that it sucks. Recently it has occured to me that part of the problem has been it may not have been portrayed properly. If we look at it's design, it actually resembles a strike carrier more than an actual destroyer for the following reasons:


1.) The "wings" on its aft quarter give it an ability that no other destroyer has: To launch multiple wings of fighters and bombers simultaneously. The wings allow it to immediately deploy 4 wings of fighters and bombers as soon as it jumps in, plus the additional wing from its main fighterbay. So immediately you'd be facing potentially 3 wings of bombers and 2 wings of fighters, plus whatever escort fighter wing jumped in with it. Making things worse, those bombers would be covered not only by one or two wings of escort fighters but also the Hecate's rather extensive array of flak guns and anti-fighter beams which can be an lightly armored interceptor pilot's worst nightmare.


2.) The forward mounted BGreen gives it the choice to devestate a cruiser, punch a big hole a corvette, or soften up a destroyer immediately after it jumps in. By the time the bomber wings (probably Artimeses) get to their target corvette or destroyer, it likely has recharged and can add a nasty punch to the bomber's attacks.

[General Battuta]

This is a good analysis, but it's also what people have been saying for years. 

(In BP the ship's basically been reclassified as a carrier, I think there's a line to that effect in m10.)

The forward BGreen is terrible though.

[Kosh]

It's true that people have considered it a carrier in the sense that it generally hangs back and lets other ships do its dirty work. The difference is we've yet to see it actually support a strike directly in the manner I've described.

[General Battuta]

It's true that people have considered it a carrier in the sense that it generally hangs back and lets other ships do its dirty work. The difference is we've yet to see it actually support a strike directly in the manner I've described.

Really? I think it's been used that way a number of times.

[Droid803]

Heck, that's basically how its used in the FS2 campaign.
The Aquitaine just sits around launching fighters and makes a beeline for the nearest jump node at the first sign of trouble.
Its beam helps it stay alive and get there (though effectiveness marginal).

When they want to send in a real warship they use an Orion (or a Typhon/Hatshepsut)

I don't think it has ever been portrayed wrong per se, maybe except the Phoenicia's dubious deployment in Bearbaiting. It is no "destroyer" like the Orion or Hattie, that's for sure.

[NGTM-1R]

This is a good analysis, but it's also what people have been saying for years. 

It does exclude the part where people note that a carrier design is a complete misstep in light of the subspace drive, so it more or less really does suck.

[General Battuta]

This is a good analysis, but it's also what people have been saying for years. 

It does exclude the part where people note that a carrier design is a complete misstep in light of the subspace drive, so it more or less really does suck.

If you bring in some kind of fuzzy externality like deployment duration it may make sense. Or maybe the ship's got a more agile subspace drive or something. You could spackle a justification together.

[Kosh]

This is a good analysis, but it's also what people have been saying for years. 

It does exclude the part where people note that a carrier design is a complete misstep in light of the subspace drive, so it more or less really does suck.

Again, that's where the strike support ability comes in. Actually even with subspace fighters still have a fairly limited endurance.

[NGTM-1R]

You can't always be supporting a strike. The point is, if it's in the system, it's vulnerable to surprise attack by capital and fightercraft. A destroyer can, in the worst case, call upon its own fighters to defend it against fightercraft attack, and this is often the best defense.

But against beam-armed capital ships the only sure defense is to be able to fire your own beams back. The Hecate can't do it in a meaningful fashion; it needs an escort at the least.

[headdie]

a carrier is useful in the GTVA navy as it provides flexibility to the GTVA fighter force deployment which I would suggest is a key part of GTVA defence doctrine.   St the end of the day a planet base or installation cant move between systems where as a destroyer can meaning that within hours a system can be reinforced by 150+ fighters per Hecate along with the support logistics behind those fighters making them vastly more flexible than they would otherwise be while minimising the impact on local defence forces such as the need to find staging locations for those fighter craft.

[NGTM-1R]

Delivering 150 fighters aboard a base that can be easily destroyed by an errant Lilth is not a useful thing to the GTVA. Now, it's possible they didn't realize this pre-Second Incursion, but afterwards? If the Hecate was merely ferrying them to pre-positioned bases and supplies, this would be a reasonable method. But we have no evidence to support this.

[General Battuta]

I think the Hecate was in many ways a reactive design. "Man, our destroyers sucked back in the Great War; they didn't get ****-all done. Man, fighters and bombers rock. They rock a lot more than a couple extra BGreens. Let's cut costs by chopping down her armament and throw in bigger crew facilities and (various stuff related to fighters) instead."

And then, yeah, Liliths.

[ShivanSpS]

When the Hecate was designed, those high powerfull beams dont existed. They dindt know anything about the Lilith with an Lred. I think not even the Aeolus was...

[Qent]

They knew about the Lucifer's "beams" though.

[General Battuta]

When the Hecate was designed, those high powerfull beams dont existed. They dindt know anything about the Lilith with an Lred. I think not even the Aeolus was...

Are you sure? Cite? I didn't think we knew exactly when the Hecate was designed or when beams came into play.

[Delta_V]

I would imagine that the Hecate was designed with beams in mind.  But if you look at the Hecate's armament, it is actually decent if you're taking on cruisers and corvettes with SGreens and TerSlashes.  The problem is, they never predicted facing ships like the Ravana and Lilith with their absurdly powerful LReds.  But if you're going to be facing ships with beams comparable to the GTVA's, the Hecate's armament is probably sufficient to defend itself until it can bring bombers to bear.

[Scotty]

When the Hecate was designed, those high powerfull beams dont existed. They dindt know anything about the Lilith with an Lred. I think not even the Aeolus was...

Are you sure? Cite? I didn't think we knew exactly when the Hecate was designed or when beams came into play.

The Hecate entered service before the Second Shivan Incursion.  Before the Second Shivan Incursion, the only Shivan ship to have beam weaponry was the Lucifer.  There were no Liliths with inconveniently painful LReds to worry about.

[General Battuta]

When the Hecate was designed, those high powerfull beams dont existed. They dindt know anything about the Lilith with an Lred. I think not even the Aeolus was...

Are you sure? Cite? I didn't think we knew exactly when the Hecate was designed or when beams came into play.

The Hecate entered service before the Second Shivan Incursion.  Before the Second Shivan Incursion, the only Shivan ship to have beam weaponry was the Lucifer.  There were no Liliths with inconveniently painful LReds to worry about.

The point is over here, you missed it. Or at least I think you did; I assumed he was talking about the BGreen and such.

[Scotty]

I thought we were continuing the conversation from NGTM-1R's post.

Delivering 150 fighters aboard a base that can be easily destroyed by an errant Lilth is not a useful thing to the GTVA.

[ShivanSpS]

The Lilith is a problem to any destroyer anyway...

The Hecate seems to be a clear responce to Shivan tactics in the Great War, when they got pwned by swarms of shivan fighters and bombers. Capacity and fast ship deployment is the key of the Hecate to counter this.

Carriers are supposed to have inferior hull plating and firepower, they need room for the ships and its logictics (armaments, parts, a long etc).

Considering that the Hecate is a good carrier, its firepower and armor are excellent.


I'm a X-Universe player too, so i bit used to the carrier concept, in that game the carriers has MINIMAL firepower, just to defend itself against smaller to medium craft.