[Hades]

I have faith in Kerberos. SOTS1 is a masterpiece of everything combined. SOTS2 will only be better.

lol blind fanboyism

Granted, I have little respect for the designer, regarding them as totally inept at game design, totally inept at community interface (lolMecron) and totally inept at programming. But that's really not relevant.

Lol same here.
That aside I did have a bit of fun with Sots1, flawed as it may have been on many points. It lacked enough depth for me to keep playing for long. (&abusable stupid A.I.)
Sots2 completely slipped under my radar, only learned about its release after seeing this topic. So I looked it up on steam to see if there was a demo. Then I read this thread and the lists of bugs and now I wouldn't even wanna pirate it and waste my time on this crashfest. (I've had quite enough of bug ridden incomplete bull**** after empire total war thank you very much)

Both of these quotes are a lot more spot on.

[TrashMan]

Pfft...Haters Gonna Hate.

You are probably among those trolls that got banned from Kerberos forums and hold a grudge ever since.
And it's not blind fanboyims, but a simple truth supported by facts - Kerberos support for their games is beyond exemplary. Their track record here is not in question.

Kerberos = amazing
Mecron = cool guy
Mecron/Kerberos haters = not cool guys

that is all.

[G0atmaster]

Seems to me that if they have a history of releasing buggy, half-finished games, I would certainly hope their support staff is top-notch! Otherwise, they would be sunk as a company!

[The E]

Pfft...Haters Gonna Hate.

You are probably among those trolls that got banned from Kerberos forums and hold a grudge ever since.
And it's not blind fanboyims, but a simple truth supported by facts - Kerberos support for their games is beyond exemplary. Their track record here is not in question.

Kerberos = amazing
Mecron = cool guy
Mecron/Kerberos haters = not cool guys

that is all.

lol blind fanboyism

Seems to me that a company with a track record of releasing buggy, untested, unfinished and borderline unplayable software should not be getting that much support from the gaming public just because they have good ideas. No matter how good they are about supportingfinishing their games after release, the fact that people have to pay money for broken games and hope that they'll get unbroken after release is not quite as endearing a strategy as you may think it is, TrashMan.

[TrashMan]

MEh.

Their games are great. All of them.
Their support is constant and goes beyond merely fixing bugs.

Their updates are more like mini-expansions, as they add new things - a new encoutner, new eye candy, or something else. SOTS ended up as an amazing game, despite it's rocky begining...and it's stable as hell (I modded the living s*** out of it and I had to work to make it crash)

As for SOTS2 - that's not a buisness strategy.
It's a fluke...a cockup. Unplanned. Unwanted. I don't think any developer plans on their code getting nuked.
They're doing a stellar job of patching it up. The game, even in it's current state, shows great depth and love.
That's what matters.

[The E]

You keep saying "their code getting nuked".

Do you have evidence of this? Do you have evidence of a software firm that is so inept, so clueless as to not use even the most basic forms of source control? Either way, it does NOT reflect well on that company that you love so much.

And aspirations to greatness, while a good thing to have, are not a replacement for being great. I have to wonder why someone who is so eager to criticize other game producers that have a much better track record of getting playable and enjoyable games out the door is willing to let blatant incompetence (if they've allowed "their code to get nuked" as you keep repeating) or inability to properly organize their release schedules (in case they really had to release it early), or inability to manage a business (in case they had to release or go bankrupt) slide so easily.

[TrashMan]

You keep saying "their code getting nuked".

Do you have evidence of this? Do you have evidence of a software firm that is so inept, so clueless as to not use even the most basic forms of source control? Either way, it does NOT reflect well on that company that you love so much.

s**** happens sometimes.
I once had my data backed up on 3 locations (one a web storage) and I still wihtin half a day lost all 3.
Unlikely? Yes.
Did it still happen? Yep. I lost months of work depsite all the precautions.

As to where I get that from? Simple. I cruse the forusm there and I pick things up. Also, at the fan gathering, a few people could play the game a bit. It was in a better state then it was at release (and had some of the features that dont' work now working there without problems).
It doesn't take a genius really....such a step back doesn't happen just like that.

As to it not reflecting well..Quite the contrary. What happened happened - it's useless to cry over spilled milk. And no one is immune to giant f***-ups.
How one deals with a disaster speaks volume, and Kerberos deals with it exemplary.

At least this mistake/disaster is something that can be fixed with a few patches. Even in the state it is in, one can see the massive amounts of potential.
A badly designed game from the get go - no amount of patches can't fix.

And aspirations to greatness, while a good thing to have, are not a replacement for being great. I have to wonder why someone who is so eager to criticize other game producers that have a much better track record of getting playable and enjoyable games out the door is willing to let blatant incompetence (if they've allowed "their code to get nuked" as you keep repeating) or inability to properly organize their release schedules (in case they really had to release it early), or inability to manage a business (in case they had to release or go bankrupt) slide so easily.

Wonder away.
The reaasons are simple enough and self-evident, and if you can't see it, it's not my problem.

Altough I do have to wonder what are those "better and more enjoyable" games you speak off...and who you are to judge competence.

[Fineus]

Could you folks please agree to disagree where relevant here... and simmer down? If it keeps up I'll have to get our the "naughty kids" hat and make people sit in the corner but I'd rather everyone take a moment to chill out and/or move on.

Thank you

[The E]

Well, for one, I can read and comprehend english. I talked about companies "who have a better track record of releasing playable and enjoyable games", not "companies that release more playable and more enjoyable games". There's a difference there, I suggest you reread the sentences and figure it out.

And no matter what your own experiences are regarding your own backups, if you are a multi-million dollar company with a single product under development that your future is riding on, you better make damn sure that your work is secured to hell and back. And again, a company that doesn't take these fundamental precautions and then suffers the consequences deserves all the blame and mockery it gets. Remember, even SCP, as a non-commercial, run-by-non-professionals entity has a better security for its code assets in place. It isn't that hard to do, so failing to take sufficient precautions is a sign of incompetence.

As to it not reflecting well..Quite the contrary. What happened happened - it's useless to cry over spilled milk. And no one is immune to giant f***-ups.
How one deals with a disaster speaks volume, and Kerberos deals with it exemplary.

At least this mistake/disaster is something that can be fixed with a few patches. Even in the state it is in, one can see the massive amounts of potential.
A badly designed game from the get go - no amount of patches can't fix.

They still released a product they knew was broken. No matter how good they are about fixing it after the fact, nothing can excuse that. They charged full price for something that wasn't completely usable, this would have been a disaster in any other branch of economy. But in gaming, suddenly everything is forgivable, given that "they have imagination". This is a fundamentally wrong approach to buying and selling products, both from their perspective, and from your perspective as a customer.

Could you folks please agree to disagree where relevant here... and simmer down? If it keeps up I'll have to get our the "naughty kids" hat and make people sit in the corner but I'd rather everyone take a moment to chill out and/or move on.

Thank you

Sorry, but calling out someone who has been accusing other people of blind fanboyism in other threads on his own blind fanboyism here is just necessary.

[Darius]

Except that nothing you say is likely to make a difference. In the words of a great comedian:

"And if perchance I have offended
Think but this and all is mended:
We’d as well be 10 minutes back in time,
For all the chance you’ll change your mind."

-Tim Minchin

[Spoon]

Didn't everyone already knew here that Trashman is a blindfanboi for Kerberos? All of his previous posts on this subject already made that abundantly clear (besides he has like 5100+ posts on the Kerberos forums if you need any other indicator).
"Kerebos&mecron can do no wrong and deserve your eternal loyality. If you disagree than 'haters gonna hate' and you 'probably hold a grudge'" <-- this right here is just comedy gold.

I once saw a interesting video of a developer/pr kinda guy who worked on Battlefield heroes. Their survey showed that around 10% of their playerbase lurked the forums. 2% of these would also post. The remainder had never even visited the forums. If you assume equal (maybe a bit more posters) numbers for SoTS playerbase, you'll realize just how small this amount of forum cheers and support is that they are getting.

As for SOTS2 - that's not a buisness strategy.
It's a fluke...a cockup. Unplanned. Unwanted. I don't think any developer plans on their code getting nuked.

There has been absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support your 'code nuke' theory. And as The E already pointed out, if this somehow actually did happen it only shows how utterly incompetent they are. As far as I can tell they deliberately chose to (probably didnt had much choice, the actual circumstances are unknown, but I think that blog gives a pretty good indicator as I already said in my earlier post) try and sell a incomplete&bugged product.

[TrashMan]

Didn't everyone already knew here that Trashman is a blindfanboi for Kerberos? All of his previous posts on this subject already made that abundantly clear (besides he has like 5100+ posts on the Kerberos forums if you need any other indicator).

Weren't you banned from their forums?
Probably.... They are big on order there and trolls don't live long.

Also the reason why I go there..It's a very nice place. Nicer than 99,9% of al lforums I ever visited (this included).

"Kerebos&mecron can do no wrong and deserve your eternal loyality. If you disagree than 'haters gonna hate' and you 'probably hold a grudge'" <-- this right here is just comedy gold.

Well, glad I'm making you laugh. I achieve more good that way than you ever will.

Also...two sides of every coin. Label me a fanboi all you want. It's irrelevant really. Haters are as blind and beyond reason as any fanboy.

 

As for SOTS2 - that's not a buisness strategy.
It's a fluke...a cockup. Unplanned. Unwanted. I don't think any developer plans on their code getting nuked.

There has been absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support your 'code nuke' theory. And as The E already pointed out, if this somehow actually did happen it only shows how utterly incompetent they are. As far as I can tell they deliberately chose to (probably didnt had much choice, the actual circumstances are unknown, but I think that blog gives a pretty good indicator as I already said in my earlier post) try and sell a incomplete&bugged product.

Meh...believe what you want. It's not like I'm gonan change your narrow mind.

Funny how judgmental you are..Incopetence? Not really. To fail is easy. To suceed difficult.
Even competent people have a bad day or jsut bad luck.
And if you want to go the "should have" route, you can forget about it. "Should have" is irrelevant because even taking all reasonable precautions is no garantee something won't go horribly wrong.

[Spoon]

Weren't you banned from their forums?
Probably.... They are big on order there and trolls don't live long.

I see your memory is as bad as your fanboyishm
The answer didnt change the last time you asked this: No, I did not get banned.
Yes, I've repeately butted heads with mecron because he got super aggressive and defensive when someone told him certain aspects of the game could be better.
Also, this was years ago and despite what you seem to believe. I do not hold a grudge or am 'blindly hating' on them. I have no reason to.
I do however gleefully look at this collosal **** up on their side, doesn't seem they have learned much in the past years! They need not worry though, they have stalwart defenders like Trashman on their side. No matter what kind of bugged and incomplete **** they churn out, their loyal fans will eat it up with gusto

Meh...believe what you want. It's not like I'm gonan change your narrow mind.

Funny how judgmental you are..Incopetence? Not really. To fail is easy. To suceed difficult.
Even competent people have a bad day or jsut bad luck.
And if you want to go the "should have" route, you can forget about it. "Should have" is irrelevant because even taking all reasonable precautions is no garantee something won't go horribly wrong.

I'll just roflcopter out of here because everyone with a brain here can see what hopeless case you are 

[TrashMan]

Also, this was years ago and despite what you seem to believe. I do not hold a grudge or am 'blindly hating' on them. I have no reason to.

Aha....and why exactly should I believe you when you say you're not a hater?
You don't seem to belive me when I say I'm nto a fanboy.
In fact, you seem to use my post coutn as proof I'm a blind fanboy.

Then again, you have over 2000 posts here. Does that mean every time you defend HLP or Freespace, no one should take you seriously? By your own logic, you're a fanboy.

I do however gleefully look at this collosal **** up on their side, doesn't seem they have learned much in the past years! They need not worry though, they have stalwart defenders like Trashman on their side. No matter what kind of bugged and incomplete **** they churn out, their loyal fans will eat it up with gusto.

Meh. In a month or two that "piece of s***" as you call it will be a 5-course dinner fit for a king. You're free to pass it up if you want, but only a blind fool can not see how good the game really is.

Meh...believe what you want. It's not like I'm gonan change your narrow mind.

Funny how judgmental you are..Incopetence? Not really. To fail is easy. To suceed difficult.
Even competent people have a bad day or jsut bad luck.
And if you want to go the "should have" route, you can forget about it. "Should have" is irrelevant because even taking all reasonable precautions is no garantee something won't go horribly wrong.

I'll just roflcopter out of here because everyone with a brain here can see what hopeless case you are 

Excuse me.. I assumed you are perfection incaranate that never has bad luck, never makes mistakes or never has accidents happen to him.
Because if any of that happened, you'd apparently be an incompetent moron. But you say you're not.

[Flipside]

These discussions about SoTS always seem to end up here...


Oh dear... I come back a day later and things didn't really improve did they? Thanks for locking this Flipside. Not to threaten anyone involved but please don't do this again ok? This thread will be remembered and you can't carry on like this indefinitely. Bans will be handed out for trolls / idiots / stupid behaviour if problems persist. - Fineus