Author Topic: Delenda Est (spoiler!)  (Read 13769 times)

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Offline Lunadance

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Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I am playing through the phase 2 of Delenda Est. But it failed because Katana always destroyed.

Sometimes, I managed to destroy all the green beams of Iolanthe(2 on bow, 2 on stern) and Deianira(2 on bow), but still keep losing Katana.

Thus, I pressed F4 then I found Katana is destroyed by Altan Orde!!(22%, 26%, two observations)

I've searched a bit about this mission but I didn't see anyone noticed about this.

Is there something I missed or anyone have suggestion on this ?  Thanks !!

(Sorry for potential grammar errors)

 

Offline SypheDMar

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Let me just say that this may explain why I keep losing recently (the other alternative and the one I assumed prior to this is that I suck and need to play FS2 again). I kept losing the Katana most of the time even though I disabled the corvettes. At the time, I thought it was the cruisers and the Carthage that beamed it to death awhile after I disarmed both corvettes.

EDIT: When I have the chance, I'll confirm if that's really the case.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2012, 09:52:50 pm by SypheDMar »

 

Offline Darius

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Oh lord... :\

 

Offline LordPomposity

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
vishnans told the altan orde's gunner that the imperieuse was on its way but nobody would listen to him so he sneaky blow up the katana so the wargods have to break off the attack

he is a hero who makes the tough choices needed to save lives

 

Offline Cyborg17

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Could it be the relative positions of the missile launchers?  I haven't looked at them, but if the launchers are both shooting vertical, and next to each other, and say there is an enemy target below and to the right of the frigate on the right, the one on the left may be accidentally shooting the one on the right.  This would be fixed by having the missile launchers either face the other frigate or face completely away from the other frigate.

 

Offline qwadtep

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
vishnans told the altan orde's gunner that the imperieuse was on its way but nobody would listen to him so he sneaky blow up the katana so the wargods have to break off the attack

he is a hero who makes the tough choices needed to save lives
It's what Captain Gennady would have wanted. Being on the other side of the ledger and all.

 

Offline LordPomposity

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Just cheated through the mission so I could pay attention to what the Altan Orde and Katana were doing. The Katana took a little bit of a burst flak bath as the Altan Orde's gunners oh-so-helpfully picked off some strikecraft that were attacking the Katana, but there wasn't any friendly fire from apocalypses, mass drivers, or gauss cannons.

Keep in mind that the kill calculations disregard beam damage* -- the Altan Orde didn't do 22-26% of all damage done to the Katana, just 22-26% of all non-beam damage done to the Katana. That probably isn't very much, really.

*unless this was changed in 3.6.14

 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
There should be AI Profile options in BP that make beam damage count, but this is still pretty ****ing weird. Please keep an eye on this and let us know what's happening.

That section of the battle has always been really, really thorny balance-wise, and has always walked an incredibly narrow tightrope between impossibly hard and self-playing.

 

Offline Aesaar

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Did the Carthage's slash beams fire before the update?  They fire now, so that might be a factor.  I have noticed that I come much closer to losing the Jovian Frigates than I used to, but I thought that was because I replaced the Carthage's green beams with blue beams.  The frigates are typically down to 10-15% health by the time the Imperieuse shows up.  Might have to try again with the standard green beams.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 10:43:01 am by Aesaar »

 

Offline QuantumDelta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
This might explain why my recent WiH playthrough was so damn hard @ DE.. ;o
I lost the frigate so many times, and a vast majority of the time I couldn't see enemy fire hitting the ship, guess it was being shot in the arse..
Not a great thing to miss considering >.>

If you can't view this I apologise, it's banned in some countries because of the music (...I think?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bOKVguQpaY

This set of tactics and positionings should get you through this mission on any difficulty regardless of circumstances.
"Neutrality means that you don't really care, cuz the struggle goes on even when you're not there: Blind and unaware."

"We still believe in all the things that we stood by before,
and after everything we've seen here maybe even more.
I know we're not the only ones, and we were not the first,
and unapologetically we'll stand behind each word."

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Just cheated through the mission so I could pay attention to what the Altan Orde and Katana were doing. The Katana took a little bit of a burst flak bath as the Altan Orde's gunners oh-so-helpfully picked off some strikecraft that were attacking the Katana, but there wasn't any friendly fire from apocalypses, mass drivers, or gauss cannons.
If they're not shooting missiles into each other, then what's happening?
Could you do more testing, Lunadance? Try sitting back and observing Altan Orde and Katana.
Last time I played DE, everything worked perfectly, though this was some time ago.
Also, on what difficulty do you play?

 

Offline Lunadance

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Just cheated through the mission so I could pay attention to what the Altan Orde and Katana were doing. The Katana took a little bit of a burst flak bath as the Altan Orde's gunners oh-so-helpfully picked off some strikecraft that were attacking the Katana, but there wasn't any friendly fire from apocalypses, mass drivers, or gauss cannons.
If they're not shooting missiles into each other, then what's happening?
Could you do more testing, Lunadance? Try sitting back and observing Altan Orde and Katana.
Last time I played DE, everything worked perfectly, though this was some time ago.
Also, on what difficulty do you play?



Hello everyone, I tried 4 more times to see whats going on, and this is the result:

Do nothing :
Katana falls due to Deianira(21%), at 15 seconds to overload. (Sighted ships attacking Katana : Carthage, Joketsu, Deianira, Iolanthe)

Detooth Iolanthe only :
Katana falls due to Deianira(43%).

Detooth Deianira only :
Altan Orde falls due to Iolanthe(21%), but Katana has only 6% hull left.

Detooth Deianira and Iolanthe, at 80 seconds to overload(At this moment Katana has around 80% hull) :
Katana falls due to Altan Orde(24%).

I was playing on level easy (Not really good at evading missiles and flaks), no checkpoints or cheats used.

Thanks for your replies!

EDIT :

In the last trial, I did nothing except detoothing Deianira and Iolanthe. Katana survived for a period of time before it's destroyed.
I pressed F4 after I finished the last beam. The last countdown message was on 80s. Then I did nothing else.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 12:29:33 pm by Lunadance »

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
At 80s to overload? With 80% hull? This seems improbable. Are you sure this data as right? Does Katana's HP go down from 80% at a fast, constant rate? That would mean it's self-destructing, and that would in turn mean a SEXP bug. I don't see any better explanation, this is plain weird. Also, try pressing "G" key while targeting the Katana, which will show you the closest ship attacking it.

 

Offline Lunadance

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
At 80s to overload? With 80% hull? This seems improbable. Are you sure this data as right? Does Katana's HP go down from 80% at a fast, constant rate? That would mean it's self-destructing, and that would in turn mean a SEXP bug. I don't see any better explanation, this is plain weird. Also, try pressing "G" key while targeting the Katana, which will show you the closest ship attacking it.

The % may be imprecise, but in the message log,  the overload process did stopped at 80s.  The rate of HP decreasing wasn't fast, but not sure if it's constant.

There were lots of ships attacking Katana, including the corvettes and the Aeolus cruisers and Carthage itself.



 

Offline General Battuta

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
So you're saying the Katana dies faster if you disarm the corvettes?

 

Offline Lunadance

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
So you're saying the Katana dies faster if you disarm the corvettes?

Nope, what I could say is that in some circumstances, Katana will die in friendly fire.

 

Offline Pireciter

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I remember playing through this mission a couple weeks ago and thinking something was weird with Katana. It always kept dying on me even after disarming the corvettes and everything else I could find. I'm playing through the mission right now and will edit this when I get some more observations at that point. Playing on Normal Difficulty, flying the Uriel with default primaries, 1 bank of darts and 2 banks of Slammers. I'll try to watch targets and timestamps since I don't have any fancy recording software or monitoring tools.

Pireciter


Edit: 1st playthrough, reached the 1st checkpoint ~6 minutes in. I did not start disarming the corvettes until the Katana and Altan Orde jumped in. Main beams disarmed on Iolanthe and Deianira with ~30% left on Katana(35 seconds left on overload). Sat and watched until Katana died(which happened). I didn't see any friendly fire hitting it, just a lot of AA beams and a couple slashes. Did seem like everything was preferring Katana over Altan Orde in target choice. Orde still had ~90% hull. Running through again now.

Edit2: 2nd playthrough, similar results(main beams disarmed at about 60/80% Katana/Altan Orde)....did notice the Grissom was going pewpew with about a million missiles one right after the other all targeting Katana. Fire rate was about one per second. By design? No friendly fire it appeared visually. Playing again...

Edit3: 3rd playthrough, watched the Grissom a little closer this time. Destroyed the main beams on the corvettes and did nothing but watch it. It sent out a stream of missiles about one a second and by the time the beams were gone, there was a line of them "connecting" Katana and Grissom. Katana seemed unwilling/unable to target and destroy them and I did not attempt because by the time I thought of trying...Katana died and I had to restart.  Are they by design where you are supposed to intercept them?


I need to head out for a bit, but will play again when I return and confirm what I saw. Also will try to destroy them this time around.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 07:52:08 pm by Pireciter »
Chaos, Panic, and Disorder...
My work here is done.

 

Offline Cyborg17

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Just to contribute a little bit, I was able to get through the mission on RC1.  (I haven't upgraded in a while.  :nervous:)

 

Offline LordPomposity

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
I noticed reading through the mission file that the Altan Orde gets Heavy Armor 80 as soon as it arrives, but the Katana is not given an armor class until the Deianira and Iolanthe are destroyed or withdraw (at which point both the Katana and Altan Orde are both given Heavy Armor 100). Was this always the case?

 

Offline Mars

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Re: Delenda Est (spoiler!)
Karunas default at Heavy 100