Author Topic: A starbase (WC2)  (Read 6295 times)

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Using Cybot078's (from wcnews) Wing commander 2 starbase as a template for this.  I de-rounded quite a few things and added some more details.








Measures in about 1.5km tall and about 3.3km diameter.  Unforunately it takes quite a few textures (23?) in all and I used every trick i know of to cut them down, but it's got so much surface area.  This is meant like the starbase Torog, only one per mission.
Oh and it's not 100% complete as I'll probably have to do some minor fixing here and there.  The six main arms will be able to dock a docking bay so you can dock ship to the docking bay which is docked to the base (if that made any sense)
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

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Offline Dragon

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Wow. Awesome. So that's what you've been working on lately? I guess the texture count shouldn't be a that much of a problem, there was only one Starbase in most WC2 missions anyway.

 

Offline Starman01

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Reallly a nice update scooby  :yes:  I always hated those balls in the original model
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Offline Aginor

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While I normally don't like the round shapes in WC2 designs I think they can look OK on stations, so I didn't have a problem with that one.
But I agree that Scooby's version looks much better.
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Droid803

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This is very cool.
(´・ω・`)
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Offline headdie

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While I normally don't like the round shapes in WC2 designs I think they can look OK on stations, so I didn't have a problem with that one.
But I agree that Scooby's version looks much better.

I actually prefer the WC1/2 era designs over the 3 onwards, though back in the day I did play them as they came out so 1&2 formed my view of the franchise.  I especially loved the relatively smooth and elegant look of the ships.
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Offline Spoon

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Quote
Unforunately it takes quite a few textures (23?) in all and I used every trick i know of to cut them down, but it's got so much surface area.  This is meant like the starbase Torog, only one per mission.
Fuuuuuuck. Learn to UV map bro!
Torgo has like 80+ textures when you count all the normal/shine/glow maps with it. That's bloody absurd.
You make all these cool starbase models but then make them nearly unusable with the texture count. It's such a waste.
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[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 
Quote
Unforunately it takes quite a few textures (23?) in all and I used every trick i know of to cut them down, but it's got so much surface area.  This is meant like the starbase Torog, only one per mission.
Fuuuuuuck. Learn to UV map bro!
Torgo has like 80+ textures when you count all the normal/shine/glow maps with it. That's bloody absurd.
You make all these cool starbase models but then make them nearly unusable with the texture count. It's such a waste.

I explained this over at cic.  (this was about the 22km dreadnaught and one of the reasons we didn't go that route)

Quote
I tried (and still am with my own stuff) to keep the texture scaling level among all the ships. For example: a warning logo is the same size on a small fighter as it is on a massive bomber. When you start dealing with such a massive size difference (compare Torgo to the clarkson) you'll need a lot of texture space for the really really really big ships. Take the Torgo for example, there's some 19 textures just for the hull, and that was after I did some massive optimizing/cheating.

 One of the reasons why there are such massive ships in freespace2 and it's mods (like Inferno) is they use tiling/repeating textures. While it looks good for some occasions, this leads to cringe worthy textures. Imagine wallpapering a kids room with MLP only to have both corners have the ponies head cut off or just having the head, yuck. Also repeat tiling doesn't give you the nice uniqueness that you can get from having each inch on the ship have it's unique texture area.

 Also more on a technically note, the normal map shaders don't like tiling, you'll get some really screwed up effects with it.
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Droid803

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That is no excuse to use a massive number of textures...
Nothing is.

Objects of this scale are generally seen far away, where you do not need to scale up texture space, or up close where you cannot see the whole damn thing and it doesn't matter anyway as everything up close is a blur mess nomatter how hires your textures are...

Better to make the damn thing actuly usable and not make performance abominations
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Legate Damar

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Disregarding the texture issues, it's a very nice model.

 
Think I have a solution for that.  Reduce the uv-size down by 75% (four of the original texture space's will now fit into one).  Then take the base texture map and reduce that by 75%. It shouldn't effect the quality that much. I just remember  I did that with the Coral sea for the same reasons.

The only sore point is it won't have the bathroom tile texture.  Since the model has curved surfaces everywhere and the tiling is in a row, the two just won't work.  Unless I can figure out a nice way to warp/distort/perspective change the tile texture without making it look bad
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Aginor

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While I normally don't like the round shapes in WC2 designs I think they can look OK on stations, so I didn't have a problem with that one.
But I agree that Scooby's version looks much better.

I actually prefer the WC1/2 era designs over the 3 onwards, though back in the day I did play them as they came out so 1&2 formed my view of the franchise.  I especially loved the relatively smooth and elegant look of the ships.

I also started with WC1 and instantly loved its style. That's why I liked it that much that Origin dropped that round and too colorful style again after WC2.
But of course that is a matter of personal preference. Most people like WC2s visual style.

 Concerning the texture thing: What I like about Scooby's textures is that they look good from far away AND when flying close. Even such monsters like the Torgo base. Most big FS ships don't look good at close range.
I admit that the very big ones use a lot of resources, which is a disadvantage. But for me it's worth it.
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Oddgrim

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Great model! , but as for your texture things.. since it has large areas of similar areas you can make them overlap uvmapped with no to minimal  loss for quality and as a added bonus you can make it all run seamlessly without the somewhat tedious texture edge stops that could happen with tile mapping. c:
Looking forward to see more most certainly!
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Well I got the hull texture count down to 5. I'll keep the original higher-res version as backup just in case.
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Droid803

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Well I got the hull texture count down to 5. I'll keep the original higher-res version as backup just in case.

Okay this is reasonable (and usable) :P
(´・ω・`)
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Offline Aginor

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Great!
Is that thing going to be armed, and if yes: with what?
I could imagine it would have some laser turrets (6 or 8 or something like that) but it could also rely solely on ships defending it, like the Torgo base.
Member of the Scooby Doo model Fanclub "verticies and splines are the medium and he is the artist."

 

Offline Spoon

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Well I got the hull texture count down to 5. I'll keep the original higher-res version as backup just in case.

Okay this is reasonable (and usable) :P
+1  :yes:
Urutorahappī!!

[02:42] <@Axem> spoon somethings wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> critically wrong
[02:42] <@Axem> im happy with these missions now
[02:44] <@Axem> well
[02:44] <@Axem> with 2 of them

 

Offline Dragon

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Great!
Is that thing going to be armed, and if yes: with what?
I could imagine it would have some laser turrets (6 or 8 or something like that) but it could also rely solely on ships defending it, like the Torgo base.
In WC2, it did have some light flak guns (IIRC).

  
Alright who wants to beta test this thing?  There's 6 docking points on the top. I've included a simple pylon section for them as placeholders.  Down the road I intend to make several different styles of pylons that can be mixed and matched with this starbase and other starbases to come.  For fighter bay's this has quite a few bays, 20 in total.  I know there's a few things missing like hud icons, but that's secondary.

I'd prefer to get all the bugs ironed out instead of having to do several patches.
http://scoobydoo.freespacemods.net/Release/BETA-Epsilon-08-19-12-BETA.7z
That's cool and ....disturbing at the same time o_o  - Vasudan Admiral

"Don't play games with me. You just killed someone I like, that is not a safe place to stand. I'm the Doctor. And you're in the biggest library in the universe. Look me up."

"Quick everyone out of the universe now!"

 

Offline Dragon

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OK, the first problem is that FSO doesn't support 20 fighterbay paths, only 10. If you ask me, it's high time to bump this limit, so don't remove the bays yet. Communications subsystem is awkwardly large, and it's destruction would look bad. Other than that, the base looks really good. Also, I'd like to see a version with a few strategically placed laser turrets, in WC2 this thing had 4 Flak Cannons.