[Ravenholme]

Then it becomes a gateway program, like TF2, which serves to put Steam on the computers of people who don't already have it. Assuming of course it wont be available without a steam client.

That tinfoil hat conducting enough electricity?

Screw you Hades von Nubbington, I sprayed my coffee all over my keyboard because of that comment!

 

[Zacam]

Well, this has certainly turned into an interesting thread.

Akalabeth Angel, if this is a mod you see no point for and you don't seem to want to be a supporting member for it, then why are you still here talking about it? Especially given that it hasn't been released yet, nobody really has any room to say anything about it other than "those are some pretty screen shots" or "wow, that took a long time didn't it?".

In short, while this has been entertaining, let's try and dial it back some, shall we? I for one am rather glad that for all their setbacks and delays that this team has managed the task of pushing forward to the finish line. And while I'm more inclined to play HL1 original myself, why should I expect others to do so? And why should I subject myself (when I have the option) of removing the choice of enjoying what may be essentially the exact same game (barring minor conversion issues) with much better models and graphical fidelity?

(Which is what the FSU does, btw. The analogy of Black Mesa being a combined FSPort+FSU isn't too far off the mark only in their case, no SCP and they've had to make it a standalone to the Source SDK. Daunting, to say the least from how I see and understand it)

As to the tinfoil comment... Black Mesa is releasing regardless of steam, but since it doesn't have any Steam distribution, it won't bundle with steam. In any case, it is a moot point since you need the Source SDK installed, which only comes through Steam. Calling Black Mesa a "gateway program" (if in fact that is what you did do) is ... lamentable.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Don't be silly, you need Steam for ANY Steam game mod...(HL2/SDK Base 2007 in this case)

But yea, even I'll be downloading the 3.??~5.?? GBs of the mod with my ****ty 512 kbps connection in release day!

Forgive me, I misread a previous post on the thread which led me to believe the game was based on a different engine. Hence the confusion.

Right, then.  This means that normal and specular maps, postprocessing, and shadows are, for the SCP, cosmetic at best.  So are cockpits and support for .ogg cutscenes.  Because those things don't impact gameplay, right? 

The AI used in Black Mesa has been revamped to expand upon that of the legacy GoldSrc (HL1) AI used for the soldiers, which--essentially--makes them not easy to fight.  The physics introduced by using the Source engine now allow for new puzzles that weren't present in HL1, which I guarantee you'll see in action in YouTube playthroughs within the next week.  I could name off features all day.

You're the only one here suggesting that comparing Black Mesa to the SCP is a disservice one or the other.  I'm sorry, but that's just all there is to it.

The examples you originally listed were all cosmetic and not related to game play so it's a little underhanded when you turn around and criticize me for examples you never stated in the first place. My criticisms were valid given the information you provided, if the information was incomplete that's your fault not mine. It's also misleading of you to selectively choose SCP examples that are all cosmetic while at the same ignoring the many other gameplay-related additions just for the sake of your argument.

That's sigtau's point.  Akalabeth says the SCP doesn't do cosmetic features, yet that's exactly what those are.

Please read my posts a little more carefully. At no point did I say the SCP doesn't do cosmetic features, what I said is that the SCP has done MORE than cosmetic features, they've done a lot to expand game play. So when sigtau lists a bunch of cosmetic features of BMesa and compares that work to the work of the SCP then yes it is a disservice.

I am really struggling to understand you here Akalabeth Angel.

on one hand you have made 3000+ posts in non GD threads on a forum built around taking games that were commercially produced and improving the graphics, fixing and adding new functionality to the game engines along with adding our own spin to the ideas and themes involved.

then on the other hand you are complaining that a team has build a mod improving in their eyes on a commercial game because they are wasting their time.

Actually most of what I'm doing is responding to people who apparently can't respect my opinion.
But if it helps to understand me better here's a simple fact

I've never played FSPort, and I never will.
I've never played FS2 with the FSOpen or the MVPs, and I never will.

But I appreciate FSPort and the MVPs (and SCP) because their work has carried over into other mods like Derelict, Inferno, Silent Thread Reborn, Blue Planet, Procyon Insurgency, Flames of War, etcetera.

So if people enjoy Black Mesa great, but personally I would much prefer a mod with a new story, new enemies, new hero, new environment, etcetera. And if the work that went into Black Mesa happens to be used in a mod that provides that new experience then I'll appreciate it then. Until then if i want to play HL1 I'll play HL1 (just like I'll play Halo 1 instead of Halo Anniversary).

Well, this has certainly turned into an interesting thread.

Akalabeth Angel, if this is a mod you see no point for and you don't seem to want to be a supporting member for it, then why are you still here talking about it? Especially given that it hasn't been released yet, nobody really has any room to say anything about it other than "those are some pretty screen shots" or "wow, that took a long time didn't it?".

I'm just defending and discussing my opinion. The sooner people stop caring what I think the sooner I leave the discussion. But when every post is a criticism of my point of view (or worse) then yes I'm inclined to continue.

Though at this point I think I've said all that needs be said.

[sigtau]

We're not responsible for your ability to ignore us. 

In other news, I start uni this week, and it comes out in five days.

****.

[Zacam]

Akalabeth Angel:
You have a right to an opinion, naturally. Why you are choosing to share it with us and have an inability to ignore that folks don't cotton to yours is your problem, not ours.

And Black Mesa can easily be a stepping stone in the same way that Port and the MediaVPs are. But in short, you're not actually contributing to this conversation about Black Mesa in a meaningful way, so please just stop now while you can.

[Polpolion]

Akalabeth Angel:

How on Earth do you have >3000 posts here with that attitude? Why do you play ST:R instead of ST, but not FSPort instead of FS1 and not FS2+MVPs instead of FS2? Why would you play ST:R and not BMS? In the event that you do replay games, why would you play the dated, 15 year old version when there are revamped, prettier versions freely available and continue to say "hur i want nu experience"? (hell, ST:R was specifically developed with retail compatibility in mind) Why are you so disdainful for cosmetics in games when they play such a vital role in how you play the game? You wouldn't happily play any game with pre-alpha placeholder graphics as long as the gameplay is there, would you? I'm honestly finding it difficult to respect your opinions, they just seem more and more silly.

[Zacam]

Polpolion:

As far as opinions go, I'm willing to let folks have their own. However, I did just say not too far up, that the general tone of the thread needs to lighten up. Maybe you missed that or assumed that it wasn't a generally applied statement to everybody, so I'll clarify: It was.

You have a right to your questions, but it's on a tangent that is starting to continue the generation of off-topic drift and in an area much closer to being construed as personal attack, depending on who's doing the interpreting.

In on-topic news, Black Mesa is now up to 37% at the time of this posting for the Greenlight. I'm kind of hoping that it does manage to make it, since that would make distribution and updating of the content post-release much easier.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Akalabeth Angel:
You have a right to an opinion, naturally. Why you are choosing to share it with us and have an inability to ignore that folks don't cotton to yours is your problem, not ours.

And Black Mesa can easily be a stepping stone in the same way that Port and the MediaVPs are. But in short, you're not actually contributing to this conversation about Black Mesa in a meaningful way, so please just stop now while you can.

I'm sorry but I consider a discussion on the merit of a mod more meaningful than "oh yay 5 days I can't wait!" post. Or is this a thread for cheerleading? Not actual discussion? Because conversation implies that there are two sides to what is being said and what you seem to be advocating is not a conversation it's a cheer squad. Cheers which are for all intents and purpose speculation until the mod itself has been released and can be properly evaluated (and discussed).

This thread is at best a discussion of one's personal reaction to a mod being announced, which is what has effectively been discussed over these last 5 pages. If the discussion moves beyond reaction to reflection upon the experience of having played it then yes, continuing the dialogue at that point would be counter to the subsequent exchange.

I have no problems with advising that the tone of a conversation be softened for the sake of the participants, just as I would think one would advise against personal attacks and other "me too" posts which add nothing of value. But seemingly moderating the content of a discussion is another matter entirely and defeats the purpose of a forum in my honest opinion. 

[sigtau]

I made a second Steam account to upvote it on Greenlight.

Does this make me a bad person?  I think it does.

[deathfun]

I just started playing Svencoop again in light of this Black Mesa mod

It's quite a bit of fun if you ignore all the god damned map changes in the campaign. I mean ****. I move three feet... MAP CHANGE

Luckily though, they've a whole ****ton of fanmade maps and whatnot which aren't so heavily based on map change galore

[Zacam]

Because conversation implies that there are two sides to what is being said

No, that's a DEBATE, not a conversation. Because then otherwise conversations would never have any agreement to them.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Because conversation implies that there are two sides to what is being said

No, that's a DEBATE, not a conversation. Because then otherwise conversations would never have any agreement to them.

Debates ARE conversations. The only thing that distinguishes a debate is the degree by which the opposing ideas differ and whether challenges to those ideas are voiced. In a conversation as you present it, every person and thus every side has their own experience and their own viewpoint of what the matter at hand is. Agreement comes not from a lack of opposing views but from a lack of challenging the differences in viewpoint, perhaps because the differences are so small as to not even been conveyed.

Either way, one of the guidelines of this board is Lively and interesting debate is encouraged and welcomed. is it not?

[deathfun]

Now we're arguing over whether or not we're arguing, or having conversation which is arguing, or pointless

Ha, only on HLP
I'll just leave this here because it's related
http://www.cracked.com/article_19468_5-logical-fallacies-that-make-you-wrong-more-than-you-think_p1.html

#5. We're Not Programmed to Seek "Truth," We're Programmed to "Win"

[sigtau]

i have an idea

let's just talk about how nice this mod is, regardless of your opinions on it

this was done from the ground up, not based on hl:source or anything

the mod team deserves lots of credit for that

[Quanto]

i have an idea

let's just talk about how nice this mod is, regardless of your opinions on it

this was done from the ground up, not based on hl:source or anything

the mod team deserves lots of credit for that

truth

[Crybertrance]

Its 45% in 4 days. I seriously think BM will be the firs game to appear on Steam through Green-light. If you look at the top ten Green-light games based on votes BM beats all others by a whopping 40% more votes.

[Zacam]

Either way, one of the guidelines of this board is Lively and interesting debate is encouraged and welcomed. is it not?

Except that you're failing to make it interesting and just pedantic and monotonous.

And no, the byline for this segment is : Discuss anything related to games and gaming here.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Either way, one of the guidelines of this board is Lively and interesting debate is encouraged and welcomed. is it not?

Except that you're failing to make it interesting and just pedantic and monotonous.

And no, the byline for this segment is : Discuss anything related to games and gaming here.

Yes and you're failing to be impartial as a moderator, going so far as to justify and condone personal attacks as well as being intentionally derisive yourself so what is the greater sin?

What is interesting furthermore is a subject of opinion and in that regard or any other you are not infallible.  The fact that my own opinion has spurred such debate means many find it interesting, even if that interest is borne of an inability to respect it. Or are a series of posts listing the rising percentage of votes for a game more interesting? That's akin to watch the hands of a clock in a slow afternoon.

So thank you, but come back when you have something of interest to say.

[Zacam]

I have plenty interesting to say. I'm not the one that came into a conversational topic and derisively cited it as a waste of time. I'm plenty impartial, except when it comes to people that don't get a clue, as you seem to have failed to do in terms of the plenty of reactions that you've gotten, which you acknowledge as counter to your own, so your own persistence is akin to trolling.

Thank you, come back when you've learned some civility and manners to your discussion.

[deathfun]

Haha
He called you a moderator

Magnificent Bastard
Administrator