Author Topic: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign  (Read 18954 times)

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Offline The E

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
On the bottom line, I've started working on the FSO engine specifically for this mod since the beginning of this month. Features include The E's lensflares and the removal of the hardcoded player-distance check (to pave the way for distance checks, in-mission or by Lua script).

Removing that check is a really, really stupid idea that only someone who has no clue whatsoever about why it exists would have.

(Here's a hint: It has to do with floating point accuracy, or rather the lack thereof. Removing it is a stupid idea, and if you have a mission that doesn't work because of it, you should rethink the mission)
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Offline Bryan See

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
In this mod, our fighters move at 500 m/s, while capital ships move at varying speeds, from 75 m/s to 350 m/s (assuming that these do not represented in scales defined in the hud gauges table, but rather in the ships table). NAV points here range typically from 400 km to 600 km or sometimes larger.

On the bottom line, I've started working on the FSO engine specifically for this mod since the beginning of this month. Features include The E's lensflares and the removal of the hardcoded player-distance check (to pave the way for distance checks, in-mission or by Lua script).

Removing that check is a really, really stupid idea that only someone who has no clue whatsoever about why it exists would have.

(Here's a hint: It has to do with floating point accuracy, or rather the lack thereof. Removing it is a stupid idea, and if you have a mission that doesn't work because of it, you should rethink the mission)
Removing that hard-coded distance check is not a stupid idea. Whether it has something to do with floating point accuracy (which I'll investigate) or rather the lack thereof, It's a way forward for modders to specify mission bounds in an arbitrary manner, whether singular or plural (I prefer plural because there will be many NAV points in my mod/game).

I think to make up for the removal of this hard-coded distance checking feature, either a Lua script or SEXP event that checks specific player distance between a point (whether specified in coordinate form, or some object like waypoint or ship) and do the following:

  • warn the player to "return to the field of engagement" (two times)
  • end mission if player ignores warnings rather than to kill the player (that was always hardcoded) in single player, but in multi-player kill player
Unless any specific mission goal or directive tells you to do so, or in auto-pilot, this is the way. Plus, there's another alternative way. Redirecting the player back into within the bounds.

I will explain that in another section.
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GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Offline The E

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
Removing that hard-coded distance check is not a stupid idea. Whether it has something to do with floating point accuracy (which I'll investigate) or rather the lack thereof, It's a way forward for modders to specify mission bounds in an arbitrary manner, whether singular or plural (I prefer plural because there will be many NAV points in my mod/game).

No, wrong. Mission bounds must exist in an engine like FSO; removing them and then requiring the player to move beyond the previously defined limits (For those who don't know, all missions have to exist in a spherical bubble 700km in radius) introduces numerical instability, which in turn ****s up physics, collision detection and, eventually, rendering.

This is something that FSO cannot let modders define. End of discussion.
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Offline Bryan See

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
I noted. Thanks for the info.
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
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Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Offline herkie423

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
Speaking of speed limits, what is the absolute speed limit for fighters, corvettes and destroyers in the FSO engine?

I'm presently working a sequel for "The Aftermath" and I will introduce a new specie unique from the Terrans, the Vasudans and Shivans. I want their cruiser-size  ships to move way faster than Terran, Vasudan and Shivan fighters.

 

Offline The E

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
There is no real limit, but I would suggest that any speed that would allow a player to get to the mission limits in too short a time is probably too high :)

It's something you'll have to play with yourself. The real upper limit for object speed is gameplay more than anything; If ships are too fast to hit (or too fast to hit anything with), that's when you need to scale it down a bit.
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Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
There's also the fact that the AI has several hardcoded values, such as distances, that mean high speed mods can result in odd AI behavior.
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Offline herkie423

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
Yeah, I noticed the AI behavior. It dosen't quite behave as it should. I will employ cap speeds and use waypoints (long distances) rather giving the ship the "attack" order.

And I will only use higher speed patameters for medium sized, non GTVA ships (cruisers and corvettes). Like The E said, it will be ridiculous for fighters.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2017, 06:32:20 pm by herkie423 »

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
Speaking of speeds, fighters move at 500 m/s. Cruisers, corvettes, frigates move at 350 m/s. Destroyers/carriers/battleships/Dreadnaughts move at 150 m/s. Juggernauts move at 75 m/s. These speeds are somehow inspired by MetalDestroyer77's videos below:


Can these speeds be ridiculous for fighters, as The E said, especially for those without "gun convergence" flag set? Even with it, can still be such? What about cruisers and capital? Does they need cap speeds and use waypoints (long distances)?
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 
Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
My recommendation would be to look into changing relative rather then absolute speeds. Sushi's velocity mod and Diaspora both do this quite well without bumping up the "in-engine" speed too much.

As an alternative approach, Wing Commander Saga felt *really fast* whilst the ingame speeds weren't actually that fast. Instead, WCS just had small models, which I thought was really clever. FS2 gets a little weird when you try to do things at super high speeds, but by decreasing the scale of everything but maintaining absolute numbers you can do some pretty neat stuff.

 

Offline Axem

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
Just moving this to the workshop (it probably should have gone there during the initial move). :) Once there is a solid final release, a new thread can be made in the release forum or it can be asked to be moved back.

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
Thank you, Axem. Now, I'm making an update following this move.

Regarding the recent move towards standalone mod which doesn't require the retail version of FS2 (in otherwords, a total conversion) and even the MediaVPs, the basic transition has been completed. I need to fix some errors that may arise during this process. This includes ships, weapons, effects, etc.

Regarding the story, I've started fleshing out the re-freshed game's plot to be more in style similar to Blue Planet. However, the setting remains intact (set in the 2012 Total Recall Movie Universe, albeit a real and expanded one). It's thanks to my discovering of the plot document found in the Earth Defense SVN megadump.

As for the remaking of the fleetpacks, all the GRW ships, save for the Senaya and others will be re-modelled (in the style of a GRW Small Interceptor concept) to take advantage of PBR rendering. These fighters and bombers will have "show ship" cockpits, with individual cockpit POF that displays HUD gauges similar to Diaspora. The Authority ships will remain intact, but some need to be re-designed and re-modelled. One of these is an Authority battlecruiser based on the Horizon-class (see below). There's one that Esarai worked before he went into inactivity for extended periods of time.



I've PM'ed him to get an latest copy of the model, but he didn't respond.

And also, I've stumbled upon Esarai's Aurora Fleet Carrier that's going to be used as a potential Authority carrier. I think Esarai can do is to log in into his p3d account and extract OBJ files and send it to me via PM.



And the mainhalls, I decided that it will be based on FS1 and FS2, in vein of Mjn.Mixael's.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 01:14:13 pm by Bryan See »
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
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Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

  

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
Now I got the Shattered Stars mod running without requiring FS2 retail and the MediaVPs, though the Interface and sounds (in fact the sounds.tbl now uses the SCP syntax instead of the retail one) needs replacing with higher quality ones.

Regarding the campaign, Woutersmits came up a mission loop part of the campaign, called Chaos-hunting. I'm not sure whether the story of the loop is, but Woutersmits insists that "About chaos huntjng the chaos march trough the galexi and going to take over we need to do something about" and that everything is improvised. I'll figure that out.

On the modelling side, I've completed the design of the GRF Dravaka intercept fighter, complete with a "show ship" cockpit. I believe all other GRW ships should follow the design as the interceptor and the GRC Senaya.


That's all of the updates for this month. By the way, the total-conversion mod works for FSO executables, including nightly ones.
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel

 

Offline Bryan See

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Re: Shattered Stars - A FS2 Campaign
The help wanted notice is out.
Bryan See - My FreeSpace Wiki User Page (Talk, Contributions)

Campaigns:
FreeSpace: Reunited - Shattered Stars

Ships:
GTS Hygeia, GTT Argo, SC Raguel