Author Topic: Sound of player's hull being hit missing  (Read 4809 times)

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Yep, all that's necessary is to change the column that has 0 for 2D sound to 1 for 3D sound.

That much I figured but I used the SCP syntax which uses a slightly different way to define what is and what is not a 3D sound.

That PR has code changes to do this automatically for those two retail sounds.

Does that mean that the code will make some changes to sounds.tbl and that my .tbm file is no longer needed?

 

Offline Dragon

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
No and yes, respectively. The code will not alter the table itself, but will treat the sounds in a special way that will fix the problem. So no need for the table-side fix.

 

Offline jg18

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Hmm, I wonder how the newly re-added sounds affect enhanced sound.

Maverick_BB110CB, could you try something for me?

As the instructions here describe, could you get the OpenAL32.dll from here and put it in your FreeSpace2 folder? It's the OpeNAL Soft audio driver, version 1.16, admittedly a bit out of date since the latest is now 1.17. You could get 1.17 instead if you like.

Then as long as you're using a nightly build made after June 1 of this year, try playing again and see how it sounds.

Enhanced sound increases the number of audio channels from 32 to 128, and it increases the concurrent playback limits for those two sounds to 3 instead of the retail limit of 1. ("Concurrent playback limit" is a limit on how many instances of the sound can play at the same time.)

Depending on how the result sounds, we could increase or decrease that limit of 3.

Thanks!


Also, I would never be a backseat admin, but I thought I'd note that fixing sounds that have been broken since retail seems like quite an achievement and a significant contribution to the community....

 
Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Hmm, I wonder how the newly re-added sounds affect enhanced sound.

Maverick_BB110CB, could you try something for me?

As the instructions here describe, could you get the OpenAL32.dll from here and put it in your FreeSpace2 folder? It's the OpeNAL Soft audio driver, version 1.16, admittedly a bit out of date since the latest is now 1.17. You could get 1.17 instead if you like.

Then as long as you're using a nightly build made after June 1 of this year, try playing again and see how it sounds.

Enhanced sound increases the number of audio channels from 32 to 128, and it increases the concurrent playback limits for those two sounds to 3 instead of the retail limit of 1. ("Concurrent playback limit" is a limit on how many instances of the sound can play at the same time.)

Depending on how the result sounds, we could increase or decrease that limit of 3.

Thanks!


Also, I would never be a backseat admin, but I thought I'd note that fixing sounds that have been broken since retail seems like quite an achievement and a significant contribution to the community....

I already have the OpelAL Soft 1.17, I just don't use it as I don't like the way it sounds. It adds a wild reverb to most sounds and the whole thing sounds like you were sitting in an elevator shaft or something. Maybe it's about some settings but I didn't find any? But if not for this I'd certainly use it because the surround effect is definitely appealing.

Anyway, I tried and it sounds pretty much OK I think. Didn't notice any significant change.
I tried on headphones. Tomorrow I'll try yet on 5.1 but I don't expect anything different.

And I'd like to note that I would probably never be able to do this if the guys on IRC and here wouldn't have pointed me in a right direction. So, big thanks to everyone involved :)

 

Offline jg18

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
I already have the OpelAL Soft 1.17, I just don't use it as I don't like the way it sounds. It adds a wild reverb to most sounds and the whole thing sounds like you were sitting in an elevator shaft or something. Maybe it's about some settings but I didn't find any? But if not for this I'd certainly use it because the surround effect is definitely appealing.

Anyway, I tried and it sounds pretty much OK I think. Didn't notice any significant change.
I tried on headphones. Tomorrow I'll try yet on 5.1 but I don't expect anything different.
The reverb effect sounds like EFX might be turned on. Check in the launcher that the "Enable EFX" checkbox under Audio is unchecked. You can also confirm in a debug log (fs2_open.log) that EFX is not enabled. Instructions on generating and finding the log can be foudn here. The log will also confirm which audio playback device is being used and whether enhanced sound is turned on. You might as well also check that the playback device that the game is using matches the one you select in the launcher.

Which build of FS2 Open are you using?

With these two soudns, enhanced soudn will only make a difference if your hull is getting hit multiple times in a short timespan, which might not happen in practice *shrug*

 

Offline AdmiralRalwood

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
With these two soudns, enhanced soudn will only make a difference if your hull is getting hit multiple times in a short timespan, which might not happen in practice *shrug*
On top of that, the code has a hardcoded timer for weapon impact sounds that prevent two of them from being told to play within 40 milliseconds of each other, completely separate from (and vastly pre-dating, since it's :v:-original) the enhanced sound code.
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Offline jg18

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Oh yeah, I forgot about that timer. Any idea why it was put there? Maybe to make better use of the 16 audio channels available to :v: at the time? Or because having lots of impact sounds play close to one another soudns bad or is confusing or something?

Whatever the reason, maybe we should reduce or eliminate the timer if enhanced soudn is enabled?

EDIT: Reading your signature again makes me wonder if there even was a good reason...

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Oh yeah, I forgot about that timer. Any idea why it was put there? Maybe to make better use of the 16 audio channels available to :v: at the time? Or because having lots of impact sounds play close to one another soudns bad or is confusing or something?

Probably both. It might not sound bad if the sounds are spatially separated enough, but generally simply playing the exact same sound several times with only a small delay between them sounds awful.

 
Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
So i tried on 5.1, not much difference. The only drawback is that s_hit and l_hit come mostly from the rear speakers and are a bit less loud which makes them a little harder to notice. Which shouldn't be because they are that kind of 'Oh ****, I'm in trouble!!' sounds.

With these two soudns, enhanced soudn will only make a difference if your hull is getting hit multiple times in a short timespan, which might not happen in practice *shrug*

I was playing Surrender, Belisarius! - when you shoot Alpha 2 you get shot pretty rapidly, even on easy difficulty. Sometimes the sound even plays multiple times during 1 second. But I don't think it sounds bad, currently set limits seem to be working just fine.

The reverb effect sounds like EFX might be turned on. Check in the launcher that the "Enable EFX" checkbox under Audio is unchecked. You can also confirm in a debug log (fs2_open.log) that EFX is not enabled. Instructions on generating and finding the log can be foudn here. The log will also confirm which audio playback device is being used and whether enhanced sound is turned on. You might as well also check that the playback device that the game is using matches the one you select in the launcher.

Tried with EFX off but the crazy reverb is still there.
Here's my log, if it's any good to you:
http://pastebin.com/5WTFXudy

Which build of FS2 Open are you using?

Currently this one - fs2_open_3_7_3_SSE_20151126_040c1f3

 

Offline jg18

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Oh yeah, I forgot about that timer. Any idea why it was put there? Maybe to make better use of the 16 audio channels available to :v: at the time? Or because having lots of impact sounds play close to one another soudns bad or is confusing or something?

Probably both. It might not sound bad if the sounds are spatially separated enough, but generally simply playing the exact same sound several times with only a small delay between them sounds awful.
Why have concurrent playback limits greater than 1, then?

So i tried on 5.1, not much difference. The only drawback is that s_hit and l_hit come mostly from the rear speakers and are a bit less loud which makes them a little harder to notice. Which shouldn't be because they are that kind of 'Oh ****, I'm in trouble!!' sounds.

I was playing Surrender, Belisarius! - when you shoot Alpha 2 you get shot pretty rapidly, even on easy difficulty. Sometimes the sound even plays multiple times during 1 second. But I don't think it sounds bad, currently set limits seem to be working just fine.
Okay, I guess things work fine as is with the timer, then. Not sure why it's  playing out of the rear speakers.

Tried with EFX off but the crazy reverb is still there.
Here's my log, if it's any good to you:
http://pastebin.com/5WTFXudy
Thanks for the log. EFX is indeed enabled.
Code: [Select]
EFX version: 1.0
  Max auxiliary sends: 4
If EFX is disabled, then the line should instead say
Code: [Select]
EFX enabled: NO

You're using wxLauncher? Which version?

  
Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Okay, I guess things work fine as is with the timer, then. Not sure why it's  playing out of the rear speakers.

First I thought that it's because the hit is actually happening behind the position of the camera. But then I noticed that the sound comes from behind even when my front shield quadrant is being hit.

You're using wxLauncher? Which version?

Uuuuhm, is it possible that the actual version of the launcher is not displayed anywhere?  :confused:  I just can't find it. Not even in the .exe file properties.
But I think it's the latest one because I installed it just a few days ago. I was using the old launcher 5.5g before.

 

Offline zookeeper

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Why have concurrent playback limits greater than 1, then?

I was referring only to the timer delay that was mentioned. Of course you want to allow concurrent playback, but it can still make sense to have have a timer so that another instance of the same sound can't start before the previous one has played for at least X milliseconds.

Of course, I don't know whether that timer really has benefits in practise or not, or whether it could just as well be removed. It might very well be that the timer was primarily intended to save channels, and it helps in preventing a silly aural effect so incredibly rarely that it's not worth the cost in code complexity. Not to mention the problem if it prevents a mod from doing something intentionally.

 

Offline Goober5000

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Also, I would never be a backseat admin, but I thought I'd note that fixing sounds that have been broken since retail seems like quite an achievement and a significant contribution to the community....

An astute observation.  I've awarded Maverick a Gold Star.  It's not every day that a new member tracks down and pinpoints the root cause of a retail bug. :yes:

 
Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Woow, thanks!! :)
But some credit should definitely go also to AdmiralRalwood and others.

 

Offline Echelon9

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Well done Maverick.

 

Offline jr2

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Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing

You're using wxLauncher? Which version?

Uuuuhm, is it possible that the actual version of the launcher is not displayed anywhere?  :confused:  I just can't find it. Not even in the .exe file properties.
But I think it's the latest one because I installed it just a few days ago. I was using the old launcher 5.5g before.

Open up

%APPDATA%\wxlauncher\wxlauncher.log

That will list the version in the first line, I believe the build of the FSO .exe being polled in the second line, and the date and time of the current wxLaucnher run in the third line.

 
Re: Sound of player's hull being hit missing
Open up

%APPDATA%\wxlauncher\wxlauncher.log

That will list the version in the first line, I believe the build of the FSO .exe being polled in the second line, and the date and time of the current wxLaucnher run in the third line.

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to write it here. Niffiwan gave me exactly these instructions on IRC that same day. My version is 0.10.1.