Author Topic: Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders  (Read 16910 times)

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Offline karajorma

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Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
In the last few months of working on the FRED Academy I've tested a whole load of missions by very new FREDders and I've noticed that often it's the same mistakes that come up time and time again. Rather than continually repeating myself I figured it might be an idea to have a little list of some of the more common FREDding mistakes I've seen.

13) Poor spelling and grammar  
 I've not been that hard on this one while playtesting cause

a) I'm not that observent and
b) Spellchecking is something I feel should be done last of all
c) I understand that many people here are not native english speakers.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try to correct those things as you go along. When a mission is complete this leaps from being a low grade annoyance to a very big one. Completed missions should never ship with obvious spelling errors in them. If English isn't your first language ask for some help.  

12) No use of the Y-axis
Ever seen Star Trek II : Wrath of Khan. Ever got the feeling that the captains of all the ships in a mission haven't? They're all arranged on the XZ plane. No ships diving in from above or nipping in from below. While it's believable that a small convoy of ships might arrange themselves this way so as to spread their flak above and below them effectively it's harder to believe that enemy ships jumping in would somehow know what plane they were on and leap in on it.

11) Poorly chained directives
This is quite a common one. If you forget to chain your Return to Base Objective it will appear at the start of the mission. Freespace is clever enough to avoid putting up a directive to kill Cancer wing if they aren't present yet but it doesn't do that for every directive. Unless you sure you don't need to you'll have to chain the directive to the event which triggers it.

10) Magically completed mission objectives
A close relative of the above error. Quite often a FREDder will put in a mission objective but forget to actually put in the trigger because he means to go back and put it in later. Nothing screams out "I haven't tested this mission" quite as loud as this cause unlike the above one this one has music to draw the playtester to the fact that you've screwed up. :)

9) No use of the escort list
All major capships and anything which is mission critical should appear on the escort list. Making a ship appear there is very simple. Just go to the ships editor>>misc. Tick the escort ship box and assign a priority. All caps should be given a priority. Don't make the mistake of only giving them to the 3 most important ships in the game. If one of them is blown up the next most important ship should then appear on the list.

8) Poorly chosen event and message names
 This one won't affect people playing the mission but it's just plain common sense. While you might think you'll remember the arcane naming system you've chosen to use you almost certainly won't if something makes you come back to the mission in a years time to fix a bug. In addition to making your life easier it makes life easier for playtesters as they can give you the name of a faulty event/message for you to fix. Finally when you look over your mission and see an is-event-true-delay SEXP how on Earth can you tell what other event it refers to if all of them are called "event name".

7) Only one RTB directive
Some missions only need to use Return to Base Directive. What some FREDders like to do is have an event that gathers up all the possible events that can end the mission and chain the RTB to that. However amongst new FREDders only one RTB is generally more indicative of a poorly thought out mission. Basically the designer thinks "Hmmm, alpha will fight this cruiser, kill the fighters and then escape with the convoy". No thought is given to what happens if something goes wrong. When this happens the mission basically continues forever because no thought was given to this possiblity.

6) The Everlasting mission
 A more insidious relative of the mission with only one RTB is the everlasting mission. Unlike the previous one there are RTBs in the mission but the player can do something that causes it to never appear (for instance disabling the wrong ship in the final FS2 mission can prevent Capella from going nova). Unlike the above error this isn't a newbie mistake as quite often even the professionals have failed to think of something the player might try. It is seen fairly commonly in newbie missions though so I mentioned it here. As a mission designer you must actively think of ways that a player could screw up your mission and prevent them. If an enemy ship must survive the mission you must have a plan for what to do should the player disable it.

5) Only one debriefing
A close relative of the the only 1 RTB error is the only one debriefing error. Basically the same logic is at work here and the mission only has a debriefing for a successfully completed mission. If anything else happens you'll only see No debriefing for mission xxxx.

4) Odd naming conventions
Freespace has certain naming conventions that should be used in any mission set in the FS2 universe unless you have a damn good reason for changing it. GTVA wings are always named after letters of the greek alphabet. Enemy fighter wings are named after signs of the zodiac. Although there is more leeway in the names of capships expecting anyone to take the GTD suck my balls seriously is frowned upon.
 Worse than poorly thought out names is the appearance of GTC Fenris 37 as this shows that you've put no thought into the names of your ships. All capships must have a unique name. You might be able to get away with giving a Poseidon or Isis a number but that is less forgivable in a Triton or Argo.

3) No delay between waves
Even in the most intense of battle there should be a few seconds delay between the death of the last ship in one wave and the next wave arriving. Otherwise it looks like the ships were lurking in subspace waiting for the death of their team mates. If you really have to avoid giving the player a breather for some reason you should still use a delay but increase the threshold for the wave so that the player is too busy with the current wave to notice the appearance of the next one.

2) Poorly thought out team loadouts
This one is a biggie. The biggest mistake is the use of the D varient weapons in singleplayer. These weapons are for use in multiplayer and thus are completely useless in the singleplayer game.
 The other big mistake is having too few or too many weapons available. What's the point in 700 Helios bombs available if there are no bombers in the mission? Hell what's the point in having 700 Helios bombs available period.  Similarly there's no point in making tempests available if you only give out 10 of them.
 A minor mistake is having a loadout consisting only of 5 myrmidons when everyone is already in myrmidons.  Why bother putting anything in the ship loadout in that case?
 (The last two will become somewhat moot once the SCP introduce a resource tracking element to campaigns but if you're not using that they are still worth mentioning).

1) And the biggest/most common mistake of all is.....

No AWOL Debriefing
This is the debriefing that appears if you leave the battle when you weren't told to do so. A lot of newbies think that this one is added automatically so they don't put it in. But if you think about it, how does FS2 know whether you were supposed to leave them mission or not? A good AWOL debriefing should check if any of the conditions allowing you to leave have come true. In addition the other debriefing sections should check and not be played if the AWOL one was (Why would Commmand applaud you for protecting a ship if they are about to take you out and shoot you! :D ) Basically this is an offshoot of the only one debriefing error but it's so common even in people who've got several debriefing stages that it was worthy of special mention.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 04:09:34 pm by 340 »
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Offline Skippy

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Excellent :yes:

You should stickify your thread ;)
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Offline karajorma

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
I'll let it get a few comments first. Many people miss the stickied threads :D

EDIT : Adding the 13th  one now :) Thanks to TopAce for noticing that I'd forgotten to mention poor loadouts :)

Oddly enough that didn't come up as often in the FA missions as I'd have expected which is why I missed it :)
« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 03:53:29 pm by 340 »
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Offline TopAce

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Here are what I noticed:
Ship/weapon selection
Too many people simply ignore this possibility and even if they do not, they do weird and illogical things. I recognise right away if you did ignore making any modifications; I get 5 fighters available of each class and get 16 primaries available of each type, including the dogfight versions which you cannot arm on your craft in Single Player mode.
Also, even if you modify this window, you tend to put in some weird number per weapon rate. For example, getting 500 Cyclopses is an overkill, but having 300 Tempests while the player flies Herc IIs with no default Tempests as weapons is too few. Do not only untick which craft/weapons you do not want to make available. Take into consideration the player's/wingmen's craft's specifications and change the number accordingly.
[EDIT]Oh, Karajorma was faster to mention this, but I still keep this here.

Difficulty
There is no need for an essay here: Rather make your mission easy at first and optimize(harden) only after you have hunted down all the bugs you found. It makes your and your testers' work much easier.
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Offline Primus

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
You did this after playtesting my mission... I'm so depressed now :(

 

Offline Blaise Russel

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
I don't really see the point in editing the loadout *numbers* to precisely correspond with the number of fighters in Alpha, Beta and Gamma and the weapon slots they have available. So what if it's 5, 5, 5 for 4-man Alpha, or 16, 16, 16 for Alpha 1 flying solo? Does it matter? I mean, you're not OCD, are you?

Well then.

 

Offline karajorma

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Like I said it's a minor point. You don't have to get the number exact but having a mission where you only have 5 myrimdons in the team loadout and everyone is already in myrmidons is a little odd :D

Anyway I've edited it to make it more clear that it wasn't the numbers that were important.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2005, 04:10:14 pm by 340 »
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Offline Axem

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
A few comments on the naming conventions. I've noticed in some campaigns people put the prefix along with the name, ex: GTC Trinty. I don't know if its right or wrong.

The FRED walkthrough did it like that but the main campaign never did. Personally I find it pointless as the prefix is also right under the name of the ship as well. It also leaves almost no room on the escort like so I'm forced to see something like:

GTD Neri...  60
GVCv Tat... 92
GTVA Col... 1

 

Offline karajorma

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
The escort list is the main reason why it's useful. Without it it's easy to forget which ship is the destroyer that is your primary goal to protect and which are the cruisers you don't care about so much.

Are you running in 640x480 BTW?
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Offline Axem

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
True I guess.

I was playing in 640x480 on my old computer, which was when I got irratated with the prefixes clogging up my escort list. So I stopped doing it into my days of 1024x786.

 

Offline Roanoke

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Background (ie: lack of)

 

Offline phreak

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
you forgot beam-free-all ;)

otherwise its a great guideline to testing missions as well.
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Offline karajorma

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk
you forgot beam-free-all ;)


It's actually quite rare that you play a posted mission where the beam-free-all has been missed. More often than that you hear the designer whining about the beams not working first :D

Quote
Originally posted by PhReAk
otherwise its a great guideline to testing missions as well.


That was part of my ulterior motive for writing it. I want the FA FREDders to help with the playtesting of missions. If they know what to look for it leaves the experts free to help with the more complicated stuff :)
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Offline TopAce

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Quote
Originally posted by Roanoke
Background (ie: lack of)


They can learn making backgrounds later.... when they become more professional and they familirise themselves with the controls/SEXPs/typical mistakes etc.
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Offline karajorma

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True but it is a common mistake :)
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Offline Roanoke

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Quote
Originally posted by Axem
A few comments on the naming conventions. I've noticed in some campaigns people put the prefix along with the name, ex: GTC Trinty. I don't know if its right or wrong.

The FRED walkthrough did it like that but the main campaign never did. Personally I find it pointless as the prefix is also right under the name of the ship as well. It also leaves almost no room on the escort like so I'm forced to see something like:

GTD Neri...  60
GVCv Tat... 92
GTVA Col... 1



I don't bother putting ship prefixies in the name field, as you say.
Especially if it's a big name like "The Rickenbacker" or somethin'.
(I always include a Van Braun and Rickenbacker in my one off missions, kinda like my little homage)

 

Offline Fergus

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Guilty of 7, 11 and 1.  I try my best, number 11 is my biggest problem I feel.  Still a very handy checklist.  Good work, also I have finaly managed to fix my Freelancer problem so I can finally get started on finishing my mission, sorry about the long wait.
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Offline Singh

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
*is extremely guilty of #8 himself
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Offline Fergus

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
I always thought that 8 would be the most annoying to make wrong, for the FRED that is.  Perhaps mine are a little too self explanatory.
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Offline WeatherOp

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The Unlucky Top 13 Mistakes made by new FREDders
Really guilty of 13, :lol:  and when I do FREd again I'll probley be guilty of all of e'm.
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