[WOLF_Angel]

A point I don't think anyone has mentioned:

Some how the Ewoks knew to move these giant logs to specific spots like hanging in a tree or at an ambush point to roll down a hill.  And they pre-gather piles of rocks to throw down on top of stormtroopers?  Either that or they had the time to do this before the battle started and they did it silently, so that no imp heard the 30 some odd trees hitting the ground in the rapidity the Ewoks were moving to prep for the battle.

I understand budgetary and set constraints of this, but I have an issue with some math.  How many troops are in a legion versus what was on Endor in the movie?  If you are not going to find a way to put them on screen, or AT LEAST explain where they are, DON'T GIVE A NUMBER TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Side note about Vietnam.  Why we "lost" the war was we tied the hands of the military so badly they could not do their job effectively.  Not without some decent reason due to the fears of starting a war with USSR.

[newman]

On that note, if you're going to build a key strategic asset on a planet you tend to make sure it's not vulnerable. Putting it smack in the middle of a forest that's filled with (and I use the word loosely) sentient, although primitive life forms that could potentially do damage if left unchecked is not what I call a sound tactical move. I'd have expected them to put it in a defensible position, and if there isn't one in the planetary area they need, then make one. Hell, the Emperor never gave bonus points for being a humanitarian, a commander who ordered the forest burned and local population exterminated in a 1000 mile radius so the generator would be secure would probably get hi-fived by the emperor himself. Instead they built it in a position that makes it very vulnerable to guerilla - style warfare and then abandoned the damn entrance to it first chance they got. If those are the Emperor's "best" legions then I can see how a band of Rebels managed to route them out in the end.

[Mongoose]

We're talking about the same Empire that left convenient torpedo-sized reactor vents in their first superweapon.  They're not exactly known for making tactically-sound defense choices.

[NGTM-1R]

We're talking about the same Empire that left convenient torpedo-sized reactor vents in their first superweapon.  They're not exactly known for making tactically-sound defense choices.

A project the size of the Death Star flaws are bound to creep in. This is not true of basic tactical planning. At the very least I would have expected a cleared field of fire around the bunker out to 500 meters and emplaced defenses of some kind.

[Mongoose]

My point there was that the bunker didn't have a kilometer of cleared space around it for the same reason the Death Star had exhaust ports dramatically located at the ends of equatorial trenches: plot contrivance.  Our heroes had to have some feasible way of defeating the Big Bad, and so the environment allowed them to do so.  At least in my opinion, a film's setting should serve its plot, not the other way around.  A more "realistic" treatment of that shield bunker probably would have been absolutely unassailable, but where's the fun in that?

[chief1983]

Sure it was both plot contrivance, but in one case it was much more believable.

[Mongoose]

I'm not so sure.  The Family Guy special had a great line about "covering them up with plywood."

[Scourge of Ages]

INCOMING THEORY! BRACE FOR IMPACT.

The Imperial fleet stationed around the DS2 had orders to hold their position. Only the Admirals likely had any clue as to why, and even they probably didn't know precisely what was planned.
"Should we attack?" "I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has something special planned for them. We only need to keep them from escaping."

When the DS2 blasted the first Rebel ship, the Imps all likely did something like this: "So that's what he meant. Awesome. Time to put our feet up and enjoy the fireworks, maybe pick off a few stragglers."

Then the Rebels charged headlong into the Imperial fleet. I imagine it was similar to Han charging a squad of stormtroopers in ANH. They figured that the Rebels/Han obviously had some sort of secret plan, weapon, or backup that they were hiding, and subsequently panicked and/or decided to play it defensively.

Then you have disorganization as the lower commanders deploy forces to react to what's happenning while the higher-ups try to figure out what's happenning and why the plan isn't working. Nobody coordinates, the Rebels press their advantage using crafty tactics, superior fighters, and movie magic.

But still, the Imperials eventually start to turn things around. "Come, boy, see for yourself. From here, you will witness the final destruction of the Alliance and the end of your insignificant rebellion." But it's too late; soon the Emperor gets the shaft, the DS2 gets it's reactor shot, and the Empire's most powerful person and weapon go down in a matter of minutes. Obviously the Rebels did have some sort of fancy weapon or plan, and they're using it! Run away! And the Zahn theory thing too.

[newman]

To be honest, I never liked the Zahn theory. The books were awesome, I just never liked the idea the Emperor used the force to make them all competent.
As for the plot, having to invent very long posts worth of excuses for why things happened a certain way is never a good sign

[SpardaSon21]

Can't we just say this all makes sense from a certain point of view?

[StarSlayer]

To be honest, I never liked the Zahn theory. The books were awesome, I just never liked the idea the Emperor used the force to make them all competent.
As for the plot, having to invent very long posts worth of excuses for why things happened a certain way is never a good sign

Was it so much competence or just giving them an extra endorphin rush to motivate them?  It's been a while since I've read the book and I forget the exact method.  If he was keeping them artificially motivated and suddenly that source was promptly cut off it probably would be like going into drug withdrawal.

[chief1983]

Can't we just say this all makes sense from a certain point of view?

Doubt it.  We need to pass a law preventing the viewing of Ep 6 after you turn 13.

[swashmebuckle]

Just pretend the Ewoks are Wookies with rocket propelled thermal detonators.

[StarSlayer]

Just pretend the Ewoks are Wookies with rocket propelled thermal detonators.

I can do better...

[newman]

Was it so much competence or just giving them an extra endorphin rush to motivate them?  It's been a while since I've read the book and I forget the exact method.  If he was keeping them artificially motivated and suddenly that source was promptly cut off it probably would be like going into drug withdrawal.

I think he was coordinating them, making them into an efficient battle machine that operated as one almost instinctively. That's the theory, anyway. I remember the line when Thrawn disclosed the theory to Pellaeon, who naturally didn't like it:

Pellaeon: "But, we carried on the fight after the Emperor died"
Thrawn: "Yes, you carried on fighting. Like cadets."

So I guess it was something akin to that battle meditation thing we saw in the games. I never liked the idea much, it gets the jedi too close to god mode.

[Mongoose]

Can't we just say this all makes sense from a certain point of view?

Doubt it.  We need to pass a law preventing the viewing of Ep 6 after you turn 13.

I'm almost twice that, and it's still my personal favorite of the trilogy.

[SpardaSon21]

Can't we just say this all makes sense from a certain point of view?

Doubt it.  We need to pass a law preventing the viewing of Ep 6 after you turn 13.

I'm almost twice that, and it's still my personal favorite of the trilogy.

Then, you shall die.

[Mongoose]

[Erkhyan]

Lemme state my author preference first. Zahn, genius, nice writing. Stackpole, genius, not so good writing. Allston, what can I say? Liking him is natural. Traviss isn't too bad either, once you get through the Boba Fetish, the Jedi-bashing and the critical research failures (okay, so that's "not too often").

Someone mentioned female star destroyers. The first Imperial I-class destroyer had a female name (please don't pair it with the Executor...)

For a good glance at how the underlings aboard DS1 felt, the novel Death Star is a good read. Like how the main gunner went from "Me wanna fire big gun" to "I'm a complete monster" after killing two planets.

For the disorganisation of the Imperial Fleet after Palpatine's death at Endor, Zahn's theory might actually work if you consider that Palpatine could have influenced their minds for a while before the battle even started. With the Emperor dead, the troops might have experienced a short but crippling withdrawal period...

[bobbtmann]

I find the withdrawal scenario seems pretty reasonable. Emperor Palpatine doesn't seem like someone who relies on subtlety. His influence was probably very heavy-handed and its removal like a kick to the brain.

On a side note, I kinda wish Death Star had been a collection of short stories rather than a novel. Short stories would have allowed the reader to experience the perspectives of many characters, and not just a few. Help describe life on board the station, at every level.