[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Flaser
5-6 Orions at most?
Excuse me, but where did you get that figure? It seems quite unlikely.

Not impossible.... it's never really made clear how many destroyers the GTA / PVN / GTVA actually had/have.  If you put it at 1 per fleet (the flagship), and IIRc there are about 12 fleets mentioned for the GTVA (lots of ambiguity over battlegroups and fleets, and whether Vasudan fleets count towards the total vs the Terran...), then 5-6 isn't too implausible.  Offhand, I think we only see about that many in FS2; the Repulse, Bastion, Messana and Carthage, plus a few mentioned in cbriefs by icon.

[StratComm]

As alpha 1 you destroy at least two yourself besides the Repulse.  And there are at least four other destroyers mentioned by briefings that are presumably Orions, as most are indicated as such by their CBani.

[aldo_14]

There is?  

Oh well.......been that long since I played FS2.  I'll dig up Sandwiches definitive list, that'll sort it out.

EDIT; yep

http://www.brainzipper.com/fs2/notes/ship_list.txt

It's 8.  And only 2 Hecates.

+0-5 destroyers of unknown type.

EDIT2; although, do the Neried and Bastion count?  It's not clear if they're in-service or not; my suspicion would be that they do, but it's maybe worth considering.

anyways, there are at least 6 Orions and almost certainly more.

[karajorma]

Are you counting all the NTF Orions in that? They were in service in the GTVA until 18 months before the start of FS2 and almost certainly would have been upgraded too.

[StratComm]

Yes, that's counting NTF Orions.  The Repulse and the other two you destroy are in that count.

[Woolie Wool]

I think it's awesome, so there.:ha:

[TopAce]

I know this number is unbelievable, but this is the truth. Yes, the GTVA needs more destroyers! Perhaps money was in building the Colossus and bringing new designs into the GTVA during the Reconstruction period. Who wants to spend money on an obsolete destroyer class if there is a new one available?

[StratComm]

In terms of raw firepower, I'd actually take an Orion over a Hecate any day.  That's why the Orion is used as the yardstick for the colossus's  armament; it is the second most powerful weapon in the Terran arsenal.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by StratComm
Yes, that's counting NTF Orions.  The Repulse and the other two you destroy are in that count.

All the NTF's destroyers were Orions (it's never stated once that they have a single Hecate and the fact that Koth is on an Orion rather than a Hecate also seem to point to that.

So the Orions lost by the NTF in the FS2 alone are.  

   NTD Jacobus
     Does not appear in any missions
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Destroyed at Deneb jump node in Alpha Centauri* by 11th Vasudan Battle Group*

   NTD Normandy
     Does not appear in any missions
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Destroyed in Epsilon Pegasi during sm1-08

   NTD Repulse
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     CO: Rear Admiral Koth
     Led an attack on the GTVA 6th Terran Fleet in Epsilon Pegasi between sm1-07 and sm1-08
     Arrived in Epsilon Pegasi in sm1-10 to take out the GTC Rampart
       Attempted to ram the GTVA Colossus after refusing to surrender
       Destroyed by GTVA Colossus

   NTD Andronicus
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Does not appear in any missions
     Destroyed near Epsilon Pegasi jump node in Polaris by GTVA Colossus between sm1-10 and sm2-01

   NTD Uhuru
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Attempts to reach Knossos portal in Gamma Draconis in sm2-04
       Destroyed by GVD Hedetet, GTCv York, GVC Unut, GVC Warwick, 5 GTSG Mjolnir RBCs and 64th Raptors Squadron at the Capella node

   NTD Vindicator
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Attempts to reach Knossos portal in Gamma Draconis in sm2-05
       Destroyed by GVCv Hyksos, GTCv Diomedes and 64th Raptors squadron in Gamma Draconis

   NTD Vasa
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Does not appear in any missions
     Attempts to reach Knossos portal in Gamma Draconis between sm2-03 and sm2-04
       Destroyed by GTVA Colossus and other GTVA warships in Capella

   NTD Cyrene
     NTD Orion class destroyer*
     Defended Sirius from GTVA 11th and 13th battle groups between sm1-04 and sm1-08
       Held off the 13th Vasudan Battle Group at the Deneb jump node in Sirius during M-SB (M)
     Destroyed by GVD Psamtik and 13th Battle Group between sm1-10 and sm2-01

   NTD Alsace
     NTD Orion class destroyer
     Dispatched by NTF forces from Regulus to assist in the attack on Sirius III in M-04b
       Destroyed by two GTVA fighter and bomber wings near the Regulus jump node

That doesn't include whatever they lost during the other 18 months of the war.

[TopAce]

Nice list. Shame on me that I don't remember the NTD Alsace.

[Goober5000]

It's entirely possible that the NTF lost very few destroyers before FS2 started.  They were on the verge of winning at that point (see the debriefing for mission 1).

I like to think there was at most one Orion per fleet during FS1 -- c.f. especially the FS Ref. Bible description of the Orion.  And I think it's safe to assume there's at most one Hecate per fleet during FS2, which is supported by one or two Orions.

The NTF has only six fleets but probably has more ships per fleet (including destroyers) than a normal GTVA fleet because of all the defections.

[Luigi30]

Did Alpha 1 ever destroy an Orion? I can't remember.

[Woolie Wool]

Originally posted by Luigi30
Did Alpha 1 ever destroy an Orion? I can't remember.

NTD Uhuru.

[StratComm]

Originally posted by Goober5000
The NTF has only six fleets but probably has more ships per fleet (including destroyers) than a normal GTVA fleet because of all the defections.

That's a point of interest, actually.  I'd imagine it would be more than a little difficult for a ship with a crew of 10,000 to up and defect.  I'd imagine that most of the ships (by volume, not just numbers) were cruisers and corvettes, because assembling a loyal crew would be much easier on ships of that size.

[Trivial Psychic]

I found a minor problem with this model.  There appears to be a tiny transparent section on the right hand side of the model, towards the rear, behind the fighterbay.  \/ See below \/

[karajorma]

Originally posted by TopAce
Nice list. Shame on me that I don't remember the NTD Alsace.

Opps. Accidently included that one. Look a the mission number in which it appears

[Taristin]

lol. Rebel intercept counts as canon now, eh?  The modified one of it, to boot!

[TopAce]

Originally posted by karajorma


Opps. Accidently included that one. Look a the mission number in which it appears

Oh, Multiplayer. I should still remember it, I actually played that mission twice or three times.

[Ulala]

I wonder if you darkened the textures a lil', would it give it a little more of a military look/feel?

[WMCoolmon]

Note the yellow...thing...going through the square surrounded by lights over the run way. Why is that there? It transitions from the blue to the yellow in several places, so it looks ugly. And the square is one of the more 'trademark' parts of the Orion (IMHO).