Hard Light Productions Forums
Off-Topic Discussion => Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Cobra on August 22, 2016, 01:54:15 pm
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Like, damn. Just picked up a CH Fighterstick and matching rudder pedals. Practicing for it in my mind before finally getting them in the mail really did not prepare me at all for this. Binding them to yaw is confusing as all hell, and the same pretty much goes for roll.
Muscle memory is a *****.
On the plus side, a CH Fighterstick feels SO much better compared to the X-55.
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I don't think I could ever properly deal with rudder pedals myself. I have excellent hand-eye coordination, but I've never professed to have any skill in the foot-eye department.
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I don't think I could ever properly deal with rudder pedals myself. I have excellent hand-eye coordination, but I've never professed to have any skill in the foot-eye department.
1) learn to drive stick
2) learn to drive stick and clutch with your right foot
3) get into accident
4) go to physical therapy
5) ??
6) Profit!!
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I don't think I could ever properly deal with rudder pedals myself. I have excellent hand-eye coordination, but I've never professed to have any skill in the foot-eye department.
I think it's all about training yourself. I played Diaspora in bursts with the pedals and I had a slightly better performance each time... Though normally I would be racking up 10+ kills on Advanced in Flight, but here I'm lucky if I get one. I'm also kind of weird in the fact that while I understand how rudders work, it still doesn't stop me from wanting to kick right to go left.
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What do you have the pedals bound to?
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What do you have the pedals bound to?
Yaw for now.
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Why would you even use rudder pedals with Diaspora? Yaw in Diaspora works nothing like yaw in a plane.
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Well for space combat sims I believe most people set the pedals to roll. I know that is how I play. I would suggest trying that and then use the stick for pitch and yaw.
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Why would you even use rudder pedals with Diaspora? Yaw in Diaspora works nothing like yaw in a plane.
Because I got a stick that doesn't have twist. :P Yaw on the pedals was something I wanted to try.
Well for space combat sims I believe most people set the pedals to roll. I know that is how I play. I would suggest trying that and then use the stick for pitch and yaw.
I've heard the opposite, as well. I've tried both so far, but my luck is awful. If the stick has yaw, I want to twist or I'm subconsciously moving one of the pedals. If the stick has roll, then I'm kicking one of the pedals in the wrong direction.
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Screw pedals, I want a twist axis on the stick. I make do with the rocker on the X45. Not as good as with my old Cyborg 3d, but way better than pedals. If I didn't have twist or rocker, I'd probably have to learn keyboard/mouse.
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So the CH stick is SO much more accurate than my X-52 or X-55. Being able to combine the stick and pedals into one device (and one that doesn't cause games like Mechwarrior 4 to freak out about zero byte allocation like vJoy) is a really nice feature. I may bite the bullet and get the throttle at a later date. Switching roll to yaw is definitely MUCH better.
It's no wonder the X-Wing books treat the protagonist pilots like aces... flying with pedals for the rudder in space is ridiculously difficult.
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So the CH stick is SO much more accurate than my X-52 or X-55. Being able to combine the stick and pedals into one device (and one that doesn't cause games like Mechwarrior 4 to freak out about zero byte allocation like vJoy) is a really nice feature. I may bite the bullet and get the throttle at a later date. Switching roll to yaw is definitely MUCH better.
It's no wonder the X-Wing books treat the protagonist pilots like aces... flying with pedals for the rudder in space is ridiculously difficult.
The CH pro throttle is awesome, with X-wing vs Tie Fighter it's like night and day, much better than using the keyboard or the throttle wheel on the base of the stick.
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So the CH stick is SO much more accurate than my X-52 or X-55. Being able to combine the stick and pedals into one device (and one that doesn't cause games like Mechwarrior 4 to freak out about zero byte allocation like vJoy) is a really nice feature. I may bite the bullet and get the throttle at a later date. Switching roll to yaw is definitely MUCH better.
It's no wonder the X-Wing books treat the protagonist pilots like aces... flying with pedals for the rudder in space is ridiculously difficult.
The CH pro throttle is awesome, with X-wing vs Tie Fighter it's like night and day, much better than using the keyboard or the throttle wheel on the base of the stick.
I don't really like the idea of a sliding throttle versus over axis throttle, though. Maybe I'm just being a pansy, I dunno.
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So the CH stick is SO much more accurate than my X-52 or X-55. Being able to combine the stick and pedals into one device (and one that doesn't cause games like Mechwarrior 4 to freak out about zero byte allocation like vJoy) is a really nice feature. I may bite the bullet and get the throttle at a later date. Switching roll to yaw is definitely MUCH better.
It's no wonder the X-Wing books treat the protagonist pilots like aces... flying with pedals for the rudder in space is ridiculously difficult.
The CH pro throttle is awesome, with X-wing vs Tie Fighter it's like night and day, much better than using the keyboard or the throttle wheel on the base of the stick.
I don't really like the idea of a sliding throttle versus over axis throttle, though. Maybe I'm just being a pansy, I dunno.
The slider is no big deal, but then again the only arc throttle I tried was on a boat, I have no experience with gaming throttles other than this one.
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Look into the X52 Pro Throttle which can sometimes be found alone and cheap on Ebay. Probably one of the best I have used and that is after owning a Ch Pro Throttle and currently using the Warthog Throttle. Lots of hats and buttons and it can be used alone. Using Xpadder you can map the buttons if you have to.
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My current simpit I use for Freespace 2 as well as Start Citizen.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1650/24109332764_a021043c5b_c.jpg)
I used the top part of my Pro Throttle to create a custom left hand controller to use with 6DOF sims.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1583/24441970720_eccf74e4d8_z.jpg)
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Look into the X52 Pro Throttle which can sometimes be found alone and cheap on Ebay. Probably one of the best I have used and that is after owning a Ch Pro Throttle and currently using the Warthog Throttle. Lots of hats and buttons and it can be used alone. Using Xpadder you can map the buttons if you have to.
Already have one. It's what I'm replacing, but keeping as a backup. The problem I'm facing is that some games don't like certain virtual controllers and flip out... Somehow, CH virtual controllers don't do that.
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Look into the X52 Pro Throttle which can sometimes be found alone and cheap on Ebay. Probably one of the best I have used and that is after owning a Ch Pro Throttle and currently using the Warthog Throttle. Lots of hats and buttons and it can be used alone. Using Xpadder you can map the buttons if you have to.
Already have one. It's what I'm replacing, but keeping as a backup. The problem I'm facing is that some games don't like certain virtual controllers and flip out... Somehow, CH virtual controllers don't do that.
From what I can understand they aren't really virtual controllers.
When you go to mapped mode the current profile is uploaded into the hardware directly, the software is only to create, test and upload the profiles and button presses aren't converted by a software into keyboard strokes but such keyboard strokes are sent directly from the peripheral.
It's actually a remainder of the days when a keyboard passthrough was necessary to use all the buttons, but it comes really handy for having compatibility with a lot of stuff that barely accepts the stick and the first four buttons.
It's actually one of the main reasons I ended up buying the throttle, before fiddling a bit with the software after I bought the stick I sincerely though that the throttle could be used only with more recent games, now I play the first X-wing with a full (well, almost, no pedals) HOTAS and it's as it always was like that.
Look into the X52 Pro Throttle which can sometimes be found alone and cheap on Ebay. Probably one of the best I have used and that is after owning a Ch Pro Throttle and currently using the Warthog Throttle. Lots of hats and buttons and it can be used alone. Using Xpadder you can map the buttons if you have to.
Some games tend to have lots of problems with Xpadder et similia, the CH control manager loads the profile directly into the hardware which tends to solve the problems.
Now if only I could find a way to program the throttle in the DOS Wing Commander games, damn you Chris Roberts and your mania of not putting in speed presets in your DOS space games! :hopping:
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Now if only I could find a way to program the throttle in the DOS Wing Commander games, damn you Chris Roberts and your mania of not putting in speed presets in your DOS space games! :hopping:
You'd think Joy2Key or Xpadder or something would be able to bind a key to {virtual joystick throttle axix set to x%}. Haven't checked, but that's the sort of thing those softwares would be good at. Problem is, then you'd have to bind your actual joystick through the same virtual joystick if the game didn't support (or can't be fooled into supporting) more than 1 joystick device.
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Now if only I could find a way to program the throttle in the DOS Wing Commander games, damn you Chris Roberts and your mania of not putting in speed presets in your DOS space games! :hopping:
You'd think Joy2Key or Xpadder or something would be able to bind a key to {virtual joystick throttle axix set to x%}. Haven't checked, but that's the sort of thing those softwares would be good at. Problem is, then you'd have to bind your actual joystick through the same virtual joystick if the game didn't support (or can't be fooled into supporting) more than 1 joystick device.
The problem is that Wing Commander only uses + and - keys and even mapping them in the profile causes problems, mostly it either registers too many keystrokes or too few, which is problematic, essentially if I recenter the axis a little bit too late it keeps pressing "+" or "-" and takes a second or two to register when I'm moving the throttle in the opposite direction.
I had enough problems that when I had only the CH Combatstick I mapped them to the 4-way hat switch instead of the throttle wheel on the base, I tired again when I got the throttle but after a few hours of trial and error the result was the same.
There probably is a script or something like that but I couldn't find anything on the internet.
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... so you're trying to use a relative throttle (throttle pos + = increase speed until throttle neutral), not an absolute throttle (throttle min = 0 speed, max = 100)?
Which makes sense, or you couldn't reverse, but couldn't you do an absolute throttle starting at either a quarter or half of the throttle length, and a deadzone in the middle?
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... so you're trying to use a relative throttle (throttle pos + = increase speed until throttle neutral), not an absolute throttle (throttle min = 0 speed, max = 100)?
Which makes sense, or you couldn't reverse, but couldn't you do an absolute throttle starting at either a quarter or half of the throttle length, and a deadzone in the middle?
Exactly, I'm trying to use a relative throttle, but for some reason I can't make it work, with steps set to one only the "increase key" is held down while the "decrease key" is pressed once without a center deadzone. With more steps it only presses the key a finite number of times which is often not enough or too much to go full throttle and slowing down, perhpas it can be done with positional mapping somehow but I still have to find a way to make it hold down the keys instead of pressing them once.
What is bewildering is that Roberts and his collaborators expected the players to mash the + and - keys instead of putting a couple of presets like Holland did in X-wing, he did it in Strike Commander but for some reason not in Wing Commander 3 even if it uses the same 3D engine.
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I believe JoyToKey can do that (select "Toggle ON/OFF" instead of "Repeat every x milliseconds").
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I believe JoyToKey can do that (select "Toggle ON/OFF" instead of "Repeat every x milliseconds").
I didn't have good experiences with joy2key, also I know there are people that have succesfully programmed the relative throttle for wing commander but CH Hangar is very restrictive regarding the e-mail domains and country region for facebook login, sooner or later I should try activate another e-mail account and see if that works but for now time is short.
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Okay, so update...
In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.
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Okay, so update...
In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.
Strange, never had any problem with X-wing alliance (at least not relative to the deadzone).
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Okay, so update...
In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.
Strange, never had any problem with X-wing alliance (at least not relative to the deadzone).
Yeah, you replied to my post on gog.com. I can't seem to make fine adjustments in the game like I can in I-War 2 or FreeSpace. I have to move the stick just a small bit further to get movement. It's enough to be annoying when I'm trying to aim at a TIE from head on.
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Okay, so update...
In space sims I seem to be either not using the pedals or using them without thinking. Half the time I don't remember using them. Now I'm finding that old games like X-Wing Alliance and Independence War feel like they have HUGE deadzones. :wtf: I can set the deadzone in Independence War 2 via cfg files, at least. Not so in XWA and I-War 1.
Strange, never had any problem with X-wing alliance (at least not relative to the deadzone).
Yeah, you replied to my post on gog.com. I can't seem to make fine adjustments in the game like I can in I-War 2 or FreeSpace. I have to move the stick just a small bit further to get movement. It's enough to be annoying when I'm trying to aim at a TIE from head on.
How did you create the profile?
Did you use the wizard?
I always created the profile manually, I don't know if the wizard might alter the way the game takes the inputs.
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There's really no difference in how the profile is created. The wizard just seems to be a way to do this all at once, rather than one at a time. Do you have any changes to your gain and response settings?
If you had the calibration window open as you played XWA in mapped mode, would you be able to tell me what value you have on x or y before it starts registering movement?
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There's really no difference in how the profile is created. The wizard just seems to be a way to do this all at once, rather than one at a time. Do you have any changes to your gain and response settings?
If you had the calibration window open as you played XWA in mapped mode, would you be able to tell me what value you have on x or y before it starts registering movement?
Dunno, I tried the wizard once but it has a 32 buttons limit that disables some of the buttons on the throttle, it's possible it does other things too but since that was a turnoff anyway I never delved further on what it does and did my profiles from scratch ever since.
It's not that complicated really, you only need to keep in mind that older games accepted a maximum of four axes: X,Y (stick), z (throttle) and r (rudder), just assign the desired value to the axes you need to use and then put them under "control manager device 1", the buttons you can map directly in the software apart from the first two or three for main functions like the fire buttons or the afterburner since many older games don't tolerate too many keyboard command at once (like for example cicling targets while hitting the afterburner), in Freespace and X-wing Alliance I assigned the rudder to the ministick x axis this way by tranforming it in the "ch control device 1" R axis and disabling the throttle wheel.
I'll see what I can do (I am at work most of the time lately), but from what I remember X-wing alliance doesn't like alt-tabbing that much on my rig.
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I was able to test it: centering at 128, a tie fighter started to pitch when the value went to 141/142.
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That's about the same for me as well. The distance just feels so big though.
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That's about the same for me as well. The distance just feels so big though.
It's probably a quirk of the flight engine, I'm so used to it I never noticed, since games at the time didn't have deadzone settings it was probably for the poor saps like me who had a crappy four button stick without any kind of software.
Also another quirk of the engine is the stick inputs going haywire when pointing at certain parts of the skybox (don't remember if there still was this problem in XWA but it's still there in XvT), I noticed only with the combatstick because with the crappy sticks I couldn't really tell the difference.
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I read somewhere that if you aim directly along an axis it gets funky.
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I read somewhere that if you aim directly along an axis it gets funky.
Yep, that's the thing.
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Still, though... I wish I had gotten a CH set sooner. ****ing love this stick. Programming controls is so much better than Saitek's profile system, too. I really like the option of having certain buttons in DirectX mode or otherwise, so I can use all the buttons on the joystick. Now I just need the throttle.