[Scotty]

Not much to research.  The Exile is canonically a she.  Nothing much else to say about it.  Kind of how the Red Alert games' Allied endings are the canonical versions.  It can happen differently in your game, but in-universe it happened that way.

[Herra Tohtori]

I usually play male character in Kotor 2 because the Handmaiden pwns the Disciple hands down in usefulness, character, lack of annoyance... and looks.

[TrashMan]

"Wound" is merely a word.  A way of describing it to other Jedi and Sith, it's meaning probably can't really be defined unless you are one.  That said, the point of the plot was that Kreia was trying to KILL the Force (or at least, that's what she said, and if you play the game, you know better than to outright trust her), so the term "wound" has more meaning here.

And just how do you kill the Force? It's energy (in a sense). You cna't destroy energy. They only way I could think off would be to destroy all life in the universe.

He wasn't really a Force leech, but he formed connections and bonds with other people very easily, making himself, AND his companions more powerful in the process.  But at the same time, they became his weakness, killing them could very easily hurt him, and it did at Malachor.  He found a way, subconsciously, to cut himself off from his very troops and fellow Jedi before they died, and the rate was so rapid that it, along with the destruction of Malachor itself, created a massive reverberating echo in the Force that centered itself on him.  This is the "wound" as best I can tell, a severe weakeness in the Force.  This is what Kreia wanted to strike, to destroy the Force.  In the end, she didn't.

And that makes no sense really. The whole "wound that can destroy the Force".

Which would miss the point.  Nihilus and Sion were meant to represent what the Exile COULD have been, had he gone a different path.  Failures, in Kreia's eyes.

How is making them more "normal" and less uber-hyped missing the point?

And if you were paying attention to the last Sion battle, you TALK him into allowing himself to die.  The fighting is just to keep the player interested.

No, not the last battle. I'm refering to the battle in the Korriban academy. I must have brought him down to 0 hp several times, he just gets instant HP re-fill and Kreia comment how he is invincible. HOW?
Since when does the Force grant immortality and invicibility?

Kreia was PISSED.  Killing them was out of anger more than anything else.  And in any case "techniques from which there is no defense" was mentioned WELL in advance of this moment, so the fact that she could perform them shouldn't be a surprise.  Hell, she did manage to hide her presense from at least one Master already by that point, so maybe she was more powerful and just life sucked the bastards.  Didn't matter, she was angry, so she killed them.

It matters. Such weaksauce plot device as "techniques from which there is no defence" is garbage.
Also, hiding themselves from detection is something the Dark Side users are good that - we've seen that much in the SW movies. What we didn't see are irresistable, insta-kill powers.

As for Sith Assassins, she wasn't a Sith until after that moment, and she may not have been one then, so the Assassins wouldn't have followed her (and she didn't have access to them anyway).

What are you talking about? She was a Sith long before the game begun. She refered to herself as being Darth Traya and she knows REALLY a lot about the Sith and their techniques.


EDIT:

Seriously, you fanboys can stop this crusade. Just because I criticize one aspect of the game doesn't mean I don't like it. In fact, it's one of the best games I played. So can the stupid "if you don't like it, don't play it" commentary.

[Spicious]

Well done, call anyone who disagrees with you fanboys. That's a very mature and well thought out argument.

Have you thought about how much more broken the game would be if suddenly after rescuing the jedi masters they all suddenly get assassinated by random sith mobs?

[Demitri]

  So whats the view of the mod then folks? Worth downloading? Buggy? etc

[Colonol Dekker]

I managed to get it working on Iziz by changing my Nvidia control panel options around a bit.

My view is that some neat stuff is added, Ie. the Dantooine defense / attack bit (mercs etc) you can choose where to deploy squads. The endings didn't seem all that special to me as i could barely remember the original one to be honest. Although i do..

Spoiler:

still mourn the Ebon Hawk.

[TrashMan]

Well done, call anyone who disagrees with you fanboys. That's a very mature and well thought out argument.

Have you thought about how much more broken the game would be if suddenly after rescuing the jedi masters they all suddenly get assassinated by random sith mobs?

How should I call people who jump on ANY critics against the game and respond that I don't like it, even after I stressed SEVERAL times that the game is great and that I love it?

Broken? Why would it be broken if the Jedi masters were outnumbered or lured into a trap? The Exile himself fell into 3 traps during the game.

[General Battuta]

I don't understand why the things you say 'make no sense' actually make no sense.

[mxlm]

Not much to research.  The Exile is canonically a she.  Nothing much else to say about it. 

Where was this established, is what I really was asking

[General Battuta]

Lucasfilm Holocron, I believe.

[Scotty]

TrashMan:  It's less what you said then how you said it.

The force itself was raped and abused, then put in a slutty dress and put on display.

If you had said maybe "I don't really like how they handled the Force aspect of the story," perhaps the replies wouldn't have been as vehement.

[Eishtmo]

And just how do you kill the Force? It's energy (in a sense). You cna't destroy energy. They only way I could think off would be to destroy all life in the universe.

And that makes no sense really. The whole "wound that can destroy the Force".

It's about creating echoes that could shatter the Force.  If you want to knock down a wall, for example, where do you hit?  On the solid face, or where there's already a crack?  Her plan was to hit at a crack, a wound, in the Force itself.  And claiming the Force is just "energy" is just an interpretation of it.  By Kreia's (and the game's) reasoning, it is NOT just energy, it is something else, something that is alive, had a will, and could be hurt or even killed.

How is making them more "normal" and less uber-hyped missing the point?

Perhaps they could have improved their fear factor, but as I've heard said, the story wasn't about them, it was about the Exile and Kreia.  They were just extras in another's story.

No, not the last battle. I'm refering to the battle in the Korriban academy. I must have brought him down to 0 hp several times, he just gets instant HP re-fill and Kreia comment how he is invincible. HOW?
Since when does the Force grant immortality and invicibility?

Yeah, actually it did.  He was holding himself together with the Force.  That's why you couldn't kill him, and why TALKING to him, breaking his spirit, is what finally let him be killed.

Force techniques have been lost over time, and Sion managed to find one that made him effectively immortal.  There's not much else I can say about that.

It matters. Such weaksauce plot device as "techniques from which there is no defence" is garbage.
Also, hiding themselves from detection is something the Dark Side users are good that - we've seen that much in the SW movies. What we didn't see are irresistable, insta-kill powers.

Alright, this is what she did:  She seperated the Masters from the Force.  She didn't ACTUALLY kill them, directly, she severed their connection to the Force, something THEY were going to do to the Exile.  But the effect was so rapid that they couldn't cope, and they just died.  They had come to rely on the Force so heavily that without it, they simply couldn't live.  That explination still won't make you happy, but whatever.

What are you talking about? She was a Sith long before the game begun. She refered to herself as being Darth Traya and she knows REALLY a lot about the Sith and their techniques.

Well, if you watched the one cutscene, Darth Traya was banished by Sion and Nihilus, stripped of her power and title of Sith Lord.  The Assassins AT THAT POINT would not have followed her, and nor was she a Sith anymore.  After that is the point I was trying to make, she presented herself as a Sith, but she was never really a Sith or Jedi anymore, she was simply Kreia.  Her personal philosphies and purpose was so radically different from the two sides that she couldn't be considered either.  By presenting herself as a Sith however, she gave the Exile (light or dark) an opponent to fight as her final test for him.

[Scotty]

You say that last point as if recognition of being a Sith was a prerequisite.  Were that true, the Sith would have been dead and gone for millenia before Episode I.

[NGTM-1R]

Man's got a point there.

Being Sith is an idea, a set of beliefs, rather than a physical state that can be revoked by an external entity.

[TrashMan]

It's about creating echoes that could shatter the Force.  If you want to knock down a wall, for example, where do you hit?  On the solid face, or where there's already a crack?  Her plan was to hit at a crack, a wound, in the Force itself.  And claiming the Force is just "energy" is just an interpretation of it.  By Kreia's (and the game's) reasoning, it is NOT just energy, it is something else, something that is alive, had a will, and could be hurt or even killed.

Even in-game, they refer to the force as being tied to livig things. So how can you kill the Force wihtout killing every living thing?

Not to mention that the movie fluff tells something very different about the Force. Obviously, Yoda and Obi-Wan had no clue what they were talking about.

Perhaps they could have improved their fear factor, but as I've heard said, the story wasn't about them, it was about the Exile and Kreia.  They were just extras in another's story.

Which is exactly what I hate. Insted of fleshing them out a bit, they were just cardboard cut-outs. Throaway villans. Boogie man used to scare.  Walking plot holes.

Yeah, actually it did.  He was holding himself together with the Force.  That's why you couldn't kill him, and why TALKING to him, breaking his spirit, is what finally let him be killed.

Force techniques have been lost over time, and Sion managed to find one that made him effectively immortal.  There's not much else I can say about that.

I can. Weaksauce explanation. Terrible writing. Surviving decapitation by lightsaber is pure, utter crap.

Alright, this is what she did:  She seperated the Masters from the Force.  She didn't ACTUALLY kill them, directly, she severed their connection to the Force, something THEY were going to do to the Exile.  But the effect was so rapid that they couldn't cope, and they just died.  They had come to rely on the Force so heavily that without it, they simply couldn't live.  That explination still won't make you happy, but whatever.

From what I could tell, it takes several amsters to do that. If one Jedi could strip another completely so easily, then the Jedi-Sith duels would look a lot different.
And yes.  Istill don't like it - cause it still sucks.

TrashMan:  It's less what you said then how you said it.

The force itself was raped and abused, then put in a slutty dress and put on display.

If you had said maybe "I don't really like how they handled the Force aspect of the story," perhaps the replies wouldn't have been as vehement.

That's one of my failings. My hate of plot holes is proportional to my liking the game/show/story. The more I like the show, the more I hate the plot holes for runining perfection.
I only rant for the extreemes - only if it's crap or if it's brilliant.

[Eishtmo]

Even in-game, they refer to the force as being tied to livig things. So how can you kill the Force wihtout killing every living thing?

Not to mention that the movie fluff tells something very different about the Force. Obviously, Yoda and Obi-Wan had no clue what they were talking about.

That's what Kreia wanted to do, and figuring her out is complicated enough.  As for Yoda and Obi-Wan, maybe they just didn't know.  After all, the Jedi Order was all but wiped out by the end of KOTOR II, that information may have been lost.

Which is exactly what I hate. Insted of fleshing them out a bit, they were just cardboard cut-outs. Throaway villans. Boogie man used to scare.  Walking plot holes.

That's not a plot hole.  It's more a piece that could have been done better.  There are plot holes in KOTOR II, but these two were not it.

And again, they weren't the 'villians' of the story.  They were more like forces of nature that pushes the Exile forward.

I can. Weaksauce explanation. Terrible writing. Surviving decapitation by lightsaber is pure, utter crap.

Weaksauce?  Look, I know you don't like the explination, but at least they GAVE one.  Better than 90% of the crap out there that doesn't even attempt to explain something.  And again, it ties back into the Exile and what he COULD have been.  I have nothing else I can tell you, but calling it 'utter crap' is childish.

From what I could tell, it takes several amsters to do that. If one Jedi could strip another completely so easily, then the Jedi-Sith duels would look a lot different.
And yes.  Istill don't like it - cause it still sucks.

Nothing said it required all three of them to do, just that they had all AGREED to do it in the end.  And again, lost knowledge, high level stuff that probably wouldn't work in most situations.  But whatever, I'm done arguing with you if you're just going to scream "IT SUCKS" whenever I try to make a point.  It's irritating.

You say that last point as if recognition of being a Sith was a prerequisite.  Were that true, the Sith would have been dead and gone for millenia before Episode I.

To controlling the Sith Assassins, yeah, it would have meant something.  But as for Kreia, being Sith or Jedi was just a title she wore as it suited her.  HER beliefs are so different from the two, that she was no more Sith or Jedi than a rock.

[Stormkeeper]

Okay, stop. What is the point of this discussion? If you don't like it, you don't. If you do, you do. End of story.

[Topgun]

I am currently playing KotOR 1 and am enjoying it immensely. I want to get KotOR 2 and i am wondering if I should just install this mod and play with it from the start. is that a good idea, or should I play it vanilla, then if I want, get the mod?

[The E]

Play it with the mod.

[TrashMan]

As for Yoda and Obi-Wan, maybe they just didn't know.  After all, the Jedi Order was all but wiped out by the end of KOTOR II, that information may have been lost.

So basicly, the game plot is giving them the finger. The moive stuff is wrong, those characters don't know their stuff, but our game - now it holds the real truth.
I hate an approach that tries to re-write the original for no good rason.

That's not a plot hole.  It's more a piece that could have been done better.  There are plot holes in KOTOR II, but these two were not it.

No? Their powers are big plot holes.

Weaksauce?  Look, I know you don't like the explination, but at least they GAVE one.  Better than 90% of the crap out there that doesn't even attempt to explain something.  And again, it ties back into the Exile and what he COULD have been.  I have nothing else I can tell you, but calling it 'utter crap' is childish.

For the record, "it's magic" is not a good explanation, especially if it contradicts common sense and established fluff. utter crap? If the shoe fits...

What you fail to realise is that these new powers and abilitites conpletely f*** up the whole thing. Eating a whole planet of stripping someone from the force are so redicolously overpowered powers it's not even funny.
Trying to handwave everytihng with "lost techniques" is even worse.


EDIT: Kreai was controling the base on Malachor V at the end. If she wasnt Sith, then why were all those sith following her?