Hard Light Productions Forums

Community Projects => The FreeSpace Upgrade Project => Topic started by: General Battuta on July 12, 2016, 06:14:45 pm

Title: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: General Battuta on July 12, 2016, 06:14:45 pm: Adding a big hole in the middle of the main beams that a double Helios shot can fly through is a problem. The turret submodels for the main beams need to be made solid.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: General Battuta on July 12, 2016, 06:24:16 pm: Or I dunno, maybe you could just add some transparent polies to guarantee detonation?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Axem on July 12, 2016, 06:33:41 pm: That'd probably be the best (and easiest) thing to do, since it doesn't really need re-exporting then...
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Mongoose on July 12, 2016, 06:43:57 pm: Man, and I thought Bearbaiting was gitchy enough in retail...
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 12, 2016, 09:53:21 pm: Someone get it done and I'll make sure it gets into the MediaVPs packs.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Nyctaeus on July 13, 2016, 09:33:53 am: Just one question...

Where?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: General Battuta on July 13, 2016, 10:38:48 am: The turret submodels for the main beams.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Nyctaeus on July 20, 2016, 07:38:03 am: I checked it out and they are okay in terms of normals and other stuff. The problem is in RGA's geometry. Origin is in the middle place between three spikes of the beam.
External collision box or moving the origin would fix the problem. First solution requires reimporting the submodels, and the second... Well. Someome would import transparent box and place them on spikes, but I doubt if it works. It's better to import each one to some 3D program, and make dedicated collision models. Nobody wants to see their Helios exploding a meters away from turret :P.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Cobra on July 25, 2016, 03:36:07 am: Quote from: Betrayal on July 20, 2016, 07:38:03 am
Nobody wants to see their Helios exploding a meters away from turret :P.

Nobody should care. Plus, if you're that close to an exploding Helios to see how far it is away when it "impacts", you're stupid.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Mammothtank on July 25, 2016, 04:23:37 am: Quote from: Cobra on July 25, 2016, 03:36:07 am
Quote from: Betrayal on July 20, 2016, 07:38:03 am
Nobody wants to see their Helios exploding a meters away from turret :P.

Nobody should care. Plus, if you're that close to an exploding Helios to see how far it is away when it "impacts", you're stupid.

Or insane. 50/50 percent chance.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Luis Dias on July 25, 2016, 04:56:32 am: What are you guys talking about, this **** right here is exactly the problem. You guys don't care at all about immersion. We all know that the be all end all of every single media thing ever, is immersion.

Right after this correction, I demand head bobbing.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Cobra on July 25, 2016, 05:27:17 am: Quote from: Luis Dias on July 25, 2016, 04:56:32 am
What are you guys talking about, this **** right here is exactly the problem. You guys don't care at all about immersion. We all know that the be all end all of every single media thing ever, is immersion.

Right after this correction, I demand head bobbing.

It isn't like the hitbox is going to be thousands of kilometers away. Immersion versus fun, engaging gameplay, amirite?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Luis Dias on July 25, 2016, 05:43:15 am: pfff "engaging gameplay". Whodafuq cares about that. GET ON with my headbobbing demand already.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: 0rph3u5 on July 25, 2016, 09:52:09 am: Quote from: Luis Dias on July 25, 2016, 04:56:32 am
We all know that the be all end all of every single media thing ever, is immersion.

At least one school of drama would like to disagree with you; sometimes pushing the audience away hard is exactly the kind of point a media creator wants...
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: General Battuta on July 25, 2016, 11:01:09 am: He's being super sarcastic, don't worry.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Grizzly on July 30, 2016, 12:22:35 pm: Quote from: Mammothtank on July 25, 2016, 04:23:37 am
Quote from: Cobra on July 25, 2016, 03:36:07 am
Quote from: Betrayal on July 20, 2016, 07:38:03 am
Nobody wants to see their Helios exploding a meters away from turret :P.

Nobody should care. Plus, if you're that close to an exploding Helios to see how far it is away when it "impacts", you're stupid.

Or insane. 50/50 percent chance.

Or you use the POV hat to see whether your shot impacts whilst afterburning the hell out of there. That's not the thing making me insane right?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Buff Skeleton on July 30, 2016, 02:21:51 pm: I was never too keen on the hollow triangular prism shape of the Sathanas' HTL beams, to be honest. Seems like a bit of artistic license was taken over the original solid red spikes. Granted, those were probably only spiky in the first place because of poly limits of the time, and we can afford a lot more detail now. But as a counterpoint, the Ravana's beams still look pretty much the same: big ol' red spikes of doom.

Why does the Sathanas get these fancy beam emitter models when the Ravana continues to use sharp pointy spikes (which also look a bit more intimidating, IMO)?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Mongoose on July 30, 2016, 08:54:27 pm: Mainly because they were modeled by different people several years apart.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: FrikgFeek on July 30, 2016, 09:25:44 pm: In general the new Sath is a much more polished and better looking model than the Ravana, these kinds of aesthetic differences are just what you get when you've got a mishmash of models made some 8 years ago and relatively new modern looking models. At least it's better than the retail Demon that's still in use.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Buff Skeleton on July 30, 2016, 10:22:43 pm: Fair points. The retail Demon is pretty hilarious next to a HTL Sathanas or even Ravana these days. Those cubic turrets...!
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Dragon on August 03, 2016, 01:53:42 pm: Yeah, I really wish someone made and finished a HTL Demon. A handful of people attempted it and none of them ever got into texturing phase. Ravana could perhaps use a touch-up, but not quite as badly.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Jadehawk on September 07, 2016, 01:29:17 pm: Did anyone actually UV map a HTL Demon? I never saw any thread on it.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: LaineyBugsDaddy on September 07, 2016, 08:21:31 pm: Nobody I know of has even gotten far enough to need to UV a high-poly demon. Every effort I can remember seeing never got past modeling the "head" of the ship.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Phantom Hoover on September 07, 2016, 08:53:54 pm: Bobboau had a finished model, it was only Esarai who stopped at the head.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: LaineyBugsDaddy on September 08, 2016, 08:57:04 am: So why was nothing done with Bobbau's model, then? I mean, I know how it was with the Orion. You had Bob's model, and Trashman's and someone else's and a big fight over which one should be used that took a long time to sort out, but if there's only one fully made high poly Demon, what happened?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: The E on September 08, 2016, 09:08:39 am: Because Bob's Demon wasn't very good, as I recall. Much like the current HTL Deimos, it didn't really add enough detail to be a good upgrade over the old one.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 08, 2016, 09:11:52 am: Yeah as soon I as I saw that "Bobboau finished a high poly Demon model"... I though.. yeah. "high poly". How long ago was Bob actively modding? 10 years now, maybe? Just think what we considered HTL 10 years ago and remember that it still wasn't good enough.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Nyctaeus on September 12, 2016, 06:08:14 am: But I guess it's still any improvement compared to retail Demon. Can I have this model anyhow? I'm curious about it...
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: JCDNWarrior on September 12, 2016, 08:15:21 am: I did see that WIP Demon in someone's p3d, but can't quite remember whose it was.

On the topic of those boxy turrets, a quick temporary solution is lending higher detailed turrets from other ships. It could make the Demon significantly more effective at defense, too, if placed correctly, such as with rotating turrets.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Col.Hornet on September 12, 2016, 08:39:52 am: Quote from: JCDNWarrior on September 12, 2016, 08:15:21 am
I did see that WIP Demon in someone's p3d, but can't quite remember whose it was.

Esarai's one?

https://p3d.in/wKnT9
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on September 12, 2016, 08:44:04 am: Quote from: Betrayal on September 12, 2016, 06:08:14 am
But I guess it's still any improvement compared to retail Demon. Can I have this model anyhow? I'm curious about it...

It's not like we have the model sitting on our FSU SVN and refuse to use it. Anything the FSU has, is generally already released either individually or in the MediaVPs. The only thing of interest on the FSU SVN is the work done to make all these assets into a bug-free pack upgrade.

I suppose it is possible one of the other long-time members downloaded the model and intended to add it to the MediaVPs and never got around to it.... best bet would be Zacam on that one.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: JCDNWarrior on September 12, 2016, 08:51:13 am: Quote from: Col.Hornet on September 12, 2016, 08:39:52 am
Quote from: JCDNWarrior on September 12, 2016, 08:15:21 am
I did see that WIP Demon in someone's p3d, but can't quite remember whose it was.

Esarai's one?

https://p3d.in/wKnT9

That's the one I remember, yeah. Good find.
Spoiler:
On that note, I really hope Esarai will finish those other great ships in that p3d.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Bobboau on June 23, 2017, 03:57:30 pm: I made an HTL Demon?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Trivial Psychic on June 23, 2017, 06:39:47 pm: I thought Trashman had been working one... a LONG time ago.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Bobboau on June 24, 2017, 04:25:47 pm: I remember that one, but all these people are talking about the HTL Demon that I supposedly made, even giving criticism about it and ****. Did I just forget? I guess it's possible, it was more than a decade ago.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Cobra on June 24, 2017, 04:47:19 pm: Quote from: Trivial Psychic on June 23, 2017, 06:39:47 pm
I thought Trashman had been working one... a LONG time ago.

Man the HTL Demon's been started and abandoned by like 5 people. Nobody knows anymore.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Bobboau on June 24, 2017, 06:08:51 pm: I remember one that had like ram horns or something
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 19, 2018, 01:27:00 am: Bumping this thread. If someone has a fixed up POF, I'll use it in the new MediaVPs which I'm trying to release ASAP.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Nightmare on July 19, 2018, 10:44:13 am: New MediaVPs? Sweet!

Haven't got a fixed Sath POF, but there's a minor issues with its table as well. mv_assets-shp.tbm adds the Long Range Flak to Turret 49 and 50 again, so whenever said weapon is removed from the original weapons.tbl the Sath will have 2 missing weapons.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 19, 2018, 05:08:42 pm: Quote from: Nightmare on July 19, 2018, 10:44:13 am
New MediaVPs? Sweet!

Haven't got a fixed Sath POF, but there's a minor issues with its table as well. mv_assets-shp.tbm adds the Long Range Flak to Turret 49 and 50 again, so whenever said weapon is removed from the original weapons.tbl the Sath will have 2 missing weapons.

That's just something that will affect all mods using many mediavps ships. I've long wanted a +nocreate variant +remote or something.. but for now the only solution is to replace mv_assets-ship.tbm with your mod's own version. Unless, of course, I'm forgetting something and turret 49/50 aren't in retail or supposed to be flak.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Nightmare on July 19, 2018, 05:17:05 pm: I'm no expert at TBMs but these 2 turrets are the only ones that alter $Default PBanks: ( "Long Range Flak" ), while all other turrets only have the animation code added, such as from the Mephisto:

Code: [Select]
$Name: SFr Mephisto +nocreate $Subsystem: turret01, 2, 1.0 $Turret Reset Delay: 15000 $Flags: ( "reset when idle" ) $animation: triggered $type: initial +relative_angle: 70, 0, 0
There are other ones which edit "$Default PBanks:", but they add weapons which are included in the MVPs by default such as Piranha#Shivan.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on July 19, 2018, 06:50:01 pm: oh, i see what you're saying. That should be an easy fix then, assuming that the retail table is correct and applies a weapon to turrets 49/50 properly.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 07, 2018, 01:57:55 am: Release is soon. Need someone to offer a fixed Sath though, if ya'll want that in.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Nightmare on August 07, 2018, 02:19:41 am: Quote from: mjn.mixael on August 07, 2018, 01:57:55 am
Release is soon.

Yay! :yes:

Quote from: mjn.mixael on August 07, 2018, 01:57:55 am
Need someone to offer a fixed Sath though, if ya'll want that in.

Using invisible-skinned blips doesn't do the job?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Axem on August 07, 2018, 10:50:37 pm: So I fixed it. Properly too. And boy, that was more broken than I thought it was.

So when I first imported the Sath, the problem did indeed appear that the center point of the turret was not inside any of the geometry. Easy enough to move it back anyway just need to... wait. The geometry doesn't make sense...

(https://i.imgur.com/HHjGni8.png)

Turns out, only the prongs were part of the turret geometry! (Dear. FRED.)

That means if you were shooting at the flat part of the turret the prongs were resting on, you're hitting the hull of the Sath, not the turret.

(Someone give rga a mean look next time you see him :nono: )

Anyway the fixed pof will now include that flat part and the stem of the turret as part of the turret geometry, and the center point of the turret is now on the flat point of that turret, so all your bombs and missiles and AI attack my subsystem targets should find their way. (Anything with those dots are part of the turret now)
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Galemp on August 08, 2018, 05:37:46 am: Three cheers for Axem! This is wonderful to see. Thank you!
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: mjn.mixael on August 11, 2018, 02:10:12 am: Sath confirmed fixed.
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Rga_Noris on October 02, 2018, 06:25:01 pm: *sees mean look*

Uh, erm, eh, well I ah... the sun was in my eyes?
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Axem on October 02, 2018, 06:48:24 pm: I still think you're cool. :cool:
Title: Re: The HTL Sath is broken
Post by: Nightmare on April 15, 2020, 06:09:06 am: :bump:

To continue this, Axem fixed the main turrets but removed the damage texture so the debris is now partitially untextured.