[MatthTheGeek]

Holy jeezus, can't you wait for me to edit my posts before rushing with 5 more ?

He lost one, count it, ONE Deimos at Neptune.  The UEF lost two Karunas and four Sancti.  That rate of attrition is immensely favorable to the GTVA, considering that Deimos are rather plentiful in the GTVA battlegroups.

You don't retreat for loosing a single corvette. If Severanti lost First Neptune, it's because the UEF defeated him, and his whole battlegroup and fighter complement probably took a good beating in the process.

The thing is, he lost against what the GTVA was considering until then as defenseless pacifists. Given the strength ratio between the UEF and his forces, he nearly HAD to engage himself into a war of attrition until the GTVA could deploy more forces.

[Scotty]

If you read the fiction again (and I don't mean to imply you haven't), he retreats for effectively two reasons.  1) Yes, his flagship had taken a beating, and 2) his fighter cover was shredded.  Neither of those, however, is tantamount to a *****slapping defeat.  I'm fairly certain, although you could probably turn up some argument, that Severanti would have decisively taken Neptune had he stayed the field.

Remember too that the entire 16th Battlegroup was waiting in reserve.

[General Battuta]

Well bear in mind that Uriels carry Jackhammer torpedoes and that gunships were explicitly close-assaulting his Hecate, which usually means ripping up subsystems. I'd say he was in serious danger of losing his flag.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Have you got a link to the video for Severanti's Neptune op? Or maybe even the mission itself? (Damn no puppydog eyes smiley)

EDIT: Nvm found the video on youtube, thanks anyway Scotty.

[Scotty]

The withdrawal of a Hecate from the field is hardly an overwhelming loss of firepower on the Tev side, but I'll concede that his flag quitting the field was a good idea.  I'm just not convinced that the rest of the 13th, perhaps reinforced by the 16th, would have lost or even been effectively slowed by any resistance around Neptune.

@Buckshee:  Battle of Neptune (the mission) was never really completed.

[MatthTheGeek]

For the vid, there you go (first Google match)

Well, granted, Hecates suck, but without your command ship and your fighter cover, there is only so much you can do against an enemy who has already overwhelmed your position.

[Scotty]

I think we disagree on the "Already overwhelmed" part of the argument.

[General Battuta]

RACE FOR PAGE 100YES!****

[MatthTheGeek]

Well, "killed one of your Deimos", "fighter cover shredded", "close-assaulting your flagship" and "destroying all of its subsystems" are more than enough to call a "all your positions are belong to us" situation.

Also, W00T at ttuta.

[Buckshee Rounds]

Wow, that was the first mission I've ever seen in FS that made the Hecate look really cool. The vid cuts out after 5 mins though, what happened next?

Oh and if we ever see pre-R1 WiH missions is there a version of the Nara without artillery? I couldn't help noticing it still had cannons in the vid.

Damn Battuta, you're like an epileptic kid chasing a train.

[Scotty]

Well, "killed one of your Deimos", "fighter cover shredded", "close-assaulting your flagship" and "destroying all of its subsystems" are more than enough to call a "all your positions are belong to us" situation.

Also, W00T at ttuta.

In light of crippling capship losses on the UEF side, and the entirely applicable (if possibly harmful) We Have Reserves capability of the GTVA, I don't think it's enough to call it.

And yes, woot at tutta.

[crizza]

There are some missions, I want to play...battle for Neptune and Saras Helios are included:)

[Scotty]

Battle of Neptune might get revisited/finished if enough people want it bad enough (don't quote me on that.  It's Dilmah's mission).

[MatthTheGeek]

In light of crippling capship losses on the UEF side, and the entirely applicable (if possibly harmful) We Have Reserves capability of the GTVA, I don't think it's enough to call it.

I don't think the GTVA had much more reserves to commit at this point. Remember the GTVA forces on the field were about half those in WiH, and that the UEF was still in A1-supar shape. If any, it's the UEF who would be in the We Have Reserves situation.

[Snail]

In light of crippling capship losses on the UEF side, and the entirely applicable (if possibly harmful) We Have Reserves capability of the GTVA, I don't think it's enough to call it.

I don't think the GTVA had much more reserves to commit at this point. Remember the GTVA forces on the field were about half those in WiH, and that the UEF was still in A1-supar shape. If any, it's the UEF who would be in the We Have Reserves situation.

Err... According to Post Meridian, the GTVA had "two dozen" destroyers, of which only 5 (Hood, Meridian, Carthage, Imperieuse, Atreus) were actually deployed in Sol.

[MatthTheGeek]

Err... What's your point ? The GTVA had only two destroyers in Sol at that time (Requiem and Meridian IIRC), Vs the four they had in WiH.

[Snail]

My point being they have reserves out of Sol?

[MatthTheGeek]

And what do you want to do with reserves out of Sol to help in a battle that takes place inside Sol ?

The UEF had all its forces at an intrasystem jump away, aka a few minutes away aside from the prep time.

[Snail]

And what do you want to do with reserves out of Sol to help in a battle that takes place inside Sol ?

They're called "reserves" for a reason. Presumably because they are reserves. Being held in reserve.

[Scotty]

The big difference is the political availability of extra forces to the Tevs.  A new Deimos or three can be sortied through the gate with little fuss, it seems.  Sending a FrigRon from 1st Fleet to support 3rd Fleet and militia elements is both much less likely to happen, and decidedly more of a political move, with all the disadvantages (and, granted, sometimes advantages) that entails.