[MatthTheGeek]

Like I said, we don't know how much influence a gas giant like Saturn has on subspace in BP canon. For all we know, the chances of getting stuck in a planet's gravity well from a random jump anywhere in Sol could be 1/2.

[LordPomposity]

The $r Carthage's jump trajectory was captured by Saturn's gravity well. We estimate she won't be able to jump again for at least twenty minutes.

(DE's briefing).

She didn't "hit" it. Her trajectory accidentally got close enough that she was attracted by it. Depending on how much an influence a planet the size of Saturn could affect subspace in BP canon, her trajectory could have been 100k km away from Saturn from all we know.

Okay, let's assume that Saturn's gravity well is a 100,000km sphere.   That works out to about a ten-trillionth of a percentage point of the volume of the solar system.

As far as crash jumps are concerned, what Qent said. Considering how precisely* the Atreus hits its jump targets in rapid succession during Darkest Hour, I'd assume that the GTVA are much, much, better at plotting jumps in a hurry than the UEF are. If gravity wells are large enough to capture ships at extreme distances, it would be more likely that the Carthage would hit Jupiter than Saturn, even if the direction of the jump were entirely random.

Back to the actual point. Every single aspect of the operation, up until the moment the Carthage destroyed the Hanuman, worked out exactly as the Wargods predicted it would. That's hard to manage without some planning.

*precisely=somewhere close to them, rather than next to a gas giant or the sun.

[MatthTheGeek]

As far as crash jumps are concerned, what Qent said. Considering how precisely* the Atreus hits its jump targets in rapid succession during Darkest Hour, I'd assume that the GTVA are much, much, better at plotting jumps in a hurry than the UEF are.

What has hurry to do here ? The Atreus engaged a series of perfectly planned, pre-calculated jumps during the Blitz. The Tevs were the ones attacking, remember ?

During Pawns and DE, the Carthage made a non-planned jump to rescue her disabled ships, then had to get the hell outta there. That's a completely different scenario.

Back to the actual point. Every single aspect of the operation, up until the moment the Carthage destroyed the Hanuman, worked out exactly as the Wargods predicted it would. That's hard to manage without some planning.

...exactly. Last time I checked, the Wargods' plan was exacted with a significant amount of planning, by nothing less than the two greatest admirals of the UEF.

[LordPomposity]

Like I said, we don't know how much influence a gas giant like Saturn has on subspace in BP canon. For all we know, the chances of getting stuck in a planet's gravity well from a random jump anywhere in Sol could be 1/2.

Okay, let's assume a 50% chance Lopez would end up in an (apparently) disadvantageous situation. Is there any compelling reason for Steele to accept a 50% chance of the plan not working rather than tell Lopez what she needs to know to ensure its success? Yeah, he would still have the Imperieuse in reserve to try again, but he can't be guaranteed another opportunity to take down six UEF warships while the rest of the UEF assets are engaged.

I got the impression that Steele's jumps in Darkest Hour were in reaction to changing battle conditions -- he took the Atreus to Rheza only once the Indus had showed up, for example. If you could store an arbitrary number of jump solutions in your computer to account for all possible contingencies, crash jumping wouldn't exist to begin with.

...exactly. Last time I checked, the Wargods' plan was exacted with a significant amount of planning, by nothing less than the two greatest admirals of the UEF.

This plan was opposed by one of the GTVA's best admirals...and she acted in an utterly predictable manner that was completely in line with every single one of the Wargods' hopes and expectations.

[Qent]

The Atreus engaged a series of perfectly planned, pre-calculated jumps during the Blitz.

Right. So the Carthage's "crash" jump could also have been pre-calculated.

If you could store an arbitrary number of jump solutions in your computer to account for all possible contingencies, crash jumping wouldn't exist to begin with.

Certainly you can't store an unbounded number of jump solutions. But five or ten seems reasonable (maximum 5-10x harder), provided that you stay on a predictable course. I would imagine that if you start maneuvering unexpectedly, all your previous solutions become invalid.

It might depend a lot on the mass of the ship too, since after a fighter receives "jump coordinates" it can jump at any time, even while maneuvering. Or it's also possible that "jump coordinates received" refers only to spacial coordinates and not a complete jump solution, in which case fighter jumps must be much easier to compute than destroyer jumps.

[LordPomposity]

Certainly you can't store an unbounded number of jump solutions. But five or ten seems reasonable (maximum 5-10x harder), provided that you stay on a predictable course. I would imagine that if you start maneuvering unexpectedly, all your previous solutions become invalid.

Well, if you accept that even one jump could be computed in advance and stored, you have to either:

1. Accept the ability to store an unlimited number of jumps in your computer, or
2. Posit that a kilometers-long warship massing millions of tons only has room for enough hard drives to store a very limited number of jump solutions.

The only way that crash jumps make any amount of sense is if it's impossible to compute a jump when you're not physically at the entry point.

[Qent]

Or that they're very complicated and take time to compute. Subspace is fantasy, so jump calculations can be arbitrarily hard.

I hypothesize that a jump solution is only valid at a certain time and place. So if you know you want to jump to Earth five minutes from now, and you're not moving at all, then that's just one calculation and you're good to go. But if you don't know when you want to go to Earth, even if you're still not moving, you have to continuously recalculate for the new conditions every minute. If you might want to go to Earth, Mars, or Jupiter, then that's three times more stuff to calculate, which takes up to three times as long. If you're also maneuvering in combat, then you don't know where you'll be or how fast you're going at the time of the jump, and that's exponentially more work.

Being physically at the entry point could also have something to do with it, because you could need sensor data about the subspace there or something ridiculous like that.

[CT27]

To somewhat echo what some have said:  I think Steele cares more about winning the war than power.  Don't get me wrong, he probably has an ego, but he wants the GTVA to win the war and wouldn't mind sharing some glory with Lopez.

[Scotty]

This plan was opposed by one of the GTVA's best admirals...and she acted in an utterly predictable manner that was completely in line with every single one of the Wargods' hopes and expectations.

And this couldn't possibly be because those reactions were the best reactions available to her at the time?  You have a crash-jump capable destroyer.  Two of your ships are engaged and supposedly signal for help.  You jump into help.  When presented with a trap, you execute a crash jump to escape.  I fail to see a decision in that chain of events that can be shown as poor without possessing quite a significant amount of knowledge that Lopez had no way of knowing.

[redsniper]

The reason the Carthage ended up at Saturn was because fighting the climactic battle of the campaign with Saturn as the backdrop was really ****ing cool.

You can adjust the technobabble and fluff however you want to fit that.

EDIT: Actually, battuta has just told me that the BP crew used some astronomy program cranked up to 2385 or whenever, in order to predict where the Carthage could get "caught". So I was wroooooooooooooong. 

[Aesaar]

Celestia, probably.  If you're fond of astronomy, it's quite nice.

[TwentyPercentCooler]

The reason the Carthage ended up at Saturn was because fighting the climactic battle of the campaign with Saturn as the backdrop was really ****ing cool.

You can adjust the technobabble and fluff however you want to fit that.

EDIT: Actually, battuta has just told me that the BP crew used some astronomy program cranked up to 2385 or whenever, in order to predict where the Carthage could get "caught". So I was wroooooooooooooong. 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrazyPrepared is now in play. Holy crap that's cool.

[CT27]

Possible guesses for Byrne's secret project (in no particular order of likelyhood):


1-Some kind of super destroyer (UESD 'something')

2-Bringing in the Vishnans to help

3-Somehow getting the Shivans to come and distract the GTVA

4-Calling Pizza Hut for 2 million large pepperoni pizzas to be sent to the three fleets (half hour delivery or it's free...)

[Deadly in a Shadow]

1-Some kind of super destroyer (UESD 'something')

2-Bringing in the Vishnans to help

3-Somehow getting the Shivans to come and distract the GTVA

4-Calling Pizza Hut for 2 million large pepperoni pizzas to be sent to the three fleets (half hour delivery or it's free...)

1: Sounds good, but I would be confused if the Tevs don't even know about some really big ship being constructed in Sol. The UEF can't conceal everything (aside from the secret project).
2: The Vishnans? They are going into war if they think it's a good idea to do it so they can rebalance the (already unbalanced) balance of power.
3: That plan would backfire horrendously. As soon as the Shivans dealt with the Tevs, the UEF will be toast soon.
4: I would expect a huge morale boost.

[Aesaar]

Something I found odd was President Toqueville's line in Ken:

"Did we do the right thing? We couldn't let them go forward with it, not once we knew. We will not be tools. But...was it right?"

Not sure how reliable it is, given that mission's nature, but it may hint at other reasons for the GTVA going to war with the UEF, possibly related to the Project.

And again with Mandho's line in the same mission:

"Why are they silent? No one has heard a whisper in more than a year...what does it mean?"

It's all conjecture, of course, but it's worth considering.

[QuakeIV]

The tevs would actually probably pull out of sol and shut off the gate to fight the shivans.  That would actually be good for the UEF.

[CT27]

1: Sounds good, but I would be confused if the Tevs don't even know about some really big ship being constructed in Sol. The UEF can't conceal everything (aside from the secret project).
2: The Vishnans? They are going into war if they think it's a good idea to do it so they can rebalance the (already unbalanced) balance of power.
3: That plan would backfire horrendously. As soon as the Shivans dealt with the Tevs, the UEF will be toast soon.
4: I would expect a huge morale boost.

I just thought of a way #4 could backfire on Byrne:


Byrne:  "I bought pizza for all my fellow UEF warriors.  Here you go guys."

Calder:  "Byrne you idiot!  I didn't want pepperoni, 3rd Fleet wanted Hawaiian!"

Netreba:  "Just pizza?  Steele said he'd also hand out free buffalo wings if we surrendered.  Besides, I like canadian bacon pizza, not pepperoni."

 

[djmindcrasher]

When will WiH 2 be released?

[crizza]

When it's done my friend

[The E]

In 2012. Maybe.