Author Topic: BP: War in Heaven discussion  (Read 918119 times)

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Offline Kolgena

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Wouldn't deleting the advanced_vp of MVP2014 be enough? That would halve texture resolution from 4k to 2k on the Sath IIRC.

 
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
First thing you could do, is simply try the old (3612) mediavps and report any crashing (or lack thereof).
Already did that :) http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70746.msg1729476#msg1729476
Anyway i guess there ought to be others with older hardware who can test any solution you'd want to try, but if not, i'd be glad to help.
And if replacing the Sath model in UT2's the only thing to do, i guess you can always release that as a separate patch to not affect those who have no problems running it.

@Kolgena: unfortunately no, whatever it does isn't enough
The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.

 

Offline Crybertrance

  • 29
  • Conventional warheads only, no funny business
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
First thing you could do, is simply try the old (3612) mediavps and report any crashing (or lack thereof).
Already did that :) http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php?topic=70746.msg1729476#msg1729476



Sorry about that, reading comprehension fail. :nono:

As for the updates I think I'd leave it up to the Devs to figure out the best compromise.
<21:08:30>   Hartzaden fires a slammer at Cybertrance
<21:09:13>   Crybertrance pops flares, but wonders how Hartzaden acquired aspect lock on a stealth fighter... :\
<21:11:58>   *** The_E joined #bp [email protected]
21:11:58   +++ ChanServ has given op to The_E
<21:12:58>   Hartzaden continues to paint crybertrance and feeding the info to a wing of gunships
<21:14:07>   Crybertrance sends emergency "IM GETING MY ASS KICKED HERE!!!!eleventy NEED HELPZZZZ" to 3rd fleet command
<21:14:50>   Hartzaden jamms the transmission.
<21:14:51>   The_E explodes the sun

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I was just combing intel entries and caught this.

Quote
Decorations: Allied Defence Citation. (2366) Capella Incursion Campaign Star. (2367) Nebula Campaign Victory Star. (2367) NTF Campaign Victory Star (2367). GTVA Legion of Honor (2367), Citation Excerpt: Captain Anita Lopez, Galactic Terran Vasudan Alliance, distinguished herself by actions above and beyond the call of duty, on October 7th, 2367, while serving as Acting Commanding Officer of the GTD Carthage, GTVA Third Fleet, during the Nebula Campaign. Captain Lopez used the Carthage as a base of fire at the Knossos Jump Node, in the nebula, while subjected to heavy Beam Fire and anti-capital ship warheads from large numbers of Shivan craft. While providing overwatch for the mass exodus of Alliance Forces from the Nebula, Captain Lopez was notified of orders to withdraw immediately, citing an imminent Shivan Incursion. Aware that more ships were attempting to rendezvous at the Knossos Portal, Captain Lopez maintained her position for a further eighty-five minutes, during which the Carthage and her Fighters and Bombers were able to repel wave after wave of Shivan attackers, including ships corvette class and above. Captain Lopez's actions saved the lives of over a thousand men and women of the Alliance, upholding great credit to herself, her crew...

Poor ****ing Lopez. She'd pulled it off before. Just get everyone home one more time...  :(

 

Offline An4ximandros

  • 210
  • Transabyssal metastatic event
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Wow. I feel even better about ending her carreer now! :D

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Gah.  That makes me even more pissed at Steele for putting her in that position in the 1st place.  Shoulda picked someone else to be the bait matie!  :mad:

Wow. I feel even better about ending her carreer now! :D

 :nono:
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Cazzym

  • 21
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
As a side note, since I didn't find a bug reporting thread, here are all the bugs I found:

-on "Her finest hour", I couldn't manage to get anything different than total loss of over 40 spaceframes, even though I played through it like 5 times. One of them didn't even include more than 15 ships, and another had about 10 losses. I saw a thread about this from January, and I am baffled too as to why this bug exists.

Can I also get a response on this? New user, love Blue Planet, but was always troubled by this.

 

Offline General Battuta

  • Poe's Law In Action
  • 214
  • i wonder when my postcount will exceed my iq
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Something about the way the variable is recorded is ****ed. It's not resetting between plays, so every time you play the mission the var increases, but it never resets to zero as it should. I'm not sure why, since all the logic seems completely clean, but it's probably something stupidly obvious. We'll (hopefully) have it fixed for the Director's Cut release.

 

Offline CT27

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Gah.  That makes me even more pissed at Steele for putting her in that position in the 1st place.  Shoulda picked someone else to be the bait matie!  :mad:

Wow. I feel even better about ending her carreer now! :D

 :nono:



In this case, is Steele really more to blame than Lopez since if Lopez would have departed when ordered the Carthage probably would still be a GTVA vessel?

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
I think Steele was just using his pieces the best way he could, and Lopez ended up being weaker than he thought.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Well, if a Theatre Commander throws a Hecate into the front lines for no good reason and it's lost, is it the Hecate Captain that is at fault?

Lopez was Steele's best Admiral, but there was a known weakness in certain situations.  So rather than waste an excellent asset by removing them from command, or removing them from the theatre, you work around the weakness and that would include not using said Admiral + Fleet as bait in operation that's likely to result in a crapton of casualties - and thus render said fleet unfit for combat.  (yes, I'm being unfair, obviously combat is not a place where you can expect to ensure that said weakness is never exposed).

Conversely of course, there's the question of whether the trap would have worked in the 1st place if another Admiral was the bait, one that didn't care so much about their crews...
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Mars

  • I have no originality
  • 211
  • Attempting unreasonable levels of reasonable
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
He didn't have any other assets that could have defended the station without compromising other outposts, most likely.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
She was not the commander of a Hecate, and all this is slightly unfair. Admiral Lopez was a brilliant commander with a very slight edge that proved a liability in a very narrow set of conditions, all of which were deliberately produced by a joint endeavour by the Fedayeen and Calder, all calculated by a terrible quantum computer machine whose power had only now begun to be taken notice by Steele.

All this criticism lies in the face of an impossible alternative world where all admirals are perfect and brilliant with no fragilities on their own, and only in such a fantasy world would Lopez be regarded as a liability and a fragile weak point. As it is, every single actor in the war has its own fragilities, and those who are able to recognize them and manipulate everything in such a manner to take advantage of those weak spots are able to gain points in the game. Steele had just done that wrt the Wargods, now the Fedayeen did so wrt Lopez.

Hindsight is 20/20 and thus extremely unfair for those who lose. Yes, Lopez lost, but then again there was a whole machinery and trickery in motion to get her. That's the disadvantage of working in the defensive, where you are giving out to the enemy the initiative. Had the Fedayeen been less successful (and the multiple fail scenarios of that mission are a testament to how flimsy their chances were), the blowback would have been immense and Lopez would have been highly regarded by the Security Council (and perhaps only Steele would be pissed that she proved an unreliable asset).

 

Offline crizza

  • 210
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Plus in the end Steele got two new taskforces, so the loss of the Carthages won't hurt him that much.

 

Offline Flak

  • 28
  • 123
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
It is still a Xanatos Speed Chess, mostly Steele vs Fedayeen and Calder. That is unless Byrne used the chaos caused by the Fedayeen to sneak a pawn into the end of the board.

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
that is a good metaphor.

 

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Replying to your earlier post, I'll admit to a little unfairness but not a lot.  Consider that Steele leaked (or gave approval to leak) Lopez's psychological profile to the UEF and the contents of that profile formed the cornerstone of the UEF/Steele plan to trap Lopez/The Wargods at Saturn. He obviously knew about the weakness, he was relying on it. Then he deployed Lopez and the Carthage to Neptune's defence in a similar situation. Maybe there wasn't anyone else to deploy but still, Steele's has a weakness with the human element in his plans, and the Fedayeen are exploiting it.
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
Everyone has flaws and weaknesses. It would be a boring plot without them. "Oh look I'm perfect and flawless and every single plan you will make will fail because I am without flaws and weaknesses, haven't I told you already? What, do you expect to take something out of my surrogates' psychological profile? You WON'T BE ABLE TO, since I've tweaked every single one of those to FOOL YOU! You expect some captain to make a gross mistake over some psycho analysis you made for a generality of Tevs? You WON'T BE ABLE TO, because I've succeeded in substituting everyone FOR ANDROID PERFECT MACHIIIIIINES"

 

Offline Luis Dias

  • 211
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
At some point, you'll just have to willingly admit the Fedayeen spotted a weaker spot (not a WEAK spot, a WEAKER spot) in Steele's structure and went full in on that joint until it cracked. And it worked, and it wasn't Steele's fault. Or if it was Steele's fault, it's just because he is not a god, he's just a human.

  

Offline niffiwan

  • 211
  • Eluder Class
Re: BP: War in Heaven discussion
You'll not get any complaints from me about having characters with weaknesses - as you say, no one is perfect and weaknesses make the characters believable :)  And I accept that Steele is human - that's good.  But he doesn't have to be a human I sympathise with, understand, or like and that's where my picking at him is coming from.  I can identify with Lopez, I can't identify with Steele. I hate his style of command and the inhumanity in his decision making (ditto for the Fedayeen obviously). The ends-justifies-the-means approach always rubs me up the wrong way and I guess it bothers me somewhat when it's being (maybe?) portrayed as the best solution on both sides.
Creating a fs2_open.log | Red Alert Bug = Hex Edit | MediaVPs 2014: Bigger HUD gauges | 32bit libs for 64bit Ubuntu
----
Debian Packages (testing/unstable): Freespace2 | wxLauncher
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m|m: I think I'm suffering from Stockholm syndrome. Bmpman is starting to make sense and it's actually written reasonably well...