[Phantom Hoover]

Yes. Exactly. It's tragic, isn't it?

[QuakeIV]

Huh, first time I've heard that character criticized.

Was he briefed on the fact that the station wasn't going to self destruct?  Did the crew of the station make the destruction of those ships pointless by refusing the scorched earth orders when the time came?  Or did he just die like a dumbass?

I can't recall if we were told that or not.


e:  Okay I tried three times to make this not sound sarcastic, ideally this is good enough

[An4ximandros]

Yes, of course I would. False peace messages leading to war are hardly anything new in human history, and most conquests don't end in complete genocide. Besides, the very first thing the Tevs tried to do was force a surrender. If they were omnicidial they'd just charge in and start beaming everything to death and glassing every planet they secure the orbit of. It's not like they warped in and instantly went full Sath on the Renjain.
It should be pretty obvious 18 months in that they don't plan on doing **** like ethnic cleansing of all the Buntus.

Except we learn during Universal Truth that MORPHEUS is about wiping out all Nagari sensitives. Considering that genocide encompasses destruction in part, yes; Morpheus is literally a plan to commit genocide.

[QuakeIV]

Unless there are a lot more nagari sensitives than I thought, it seems like genocide may be rather too dramatic a term for the situation.

[FrikgFeek]

Sure, but at that point they haven't gone through with it or done anything to make Nelson think they have genocidal intentions. I'm pretty sure he knew that the station wouldn't self-destruct before they're fully evacuated so he's basically throwing a lot of lives and 3 ships away to deny them that station(in his mind).
Does that really sound like a trade that's worth it, especially considering the GTVA are the ones with more ships in reserve and a better production lines? The UEF really can't afford to sacrifice even a single Karuna, even if it's to deny the Tevs a station that could be used as a staging point.

If the UEF really did plan to blow up the station along with the civilians who didn't make it out then what the hell is he doing sacrificing his life for them? Being captured by the GTVA sounds like a better fate than being blown to bits tbh.

[QuakeIV]

If you assume them exploding is a certainty, then it makes sense to buy them evac time.  Potentially he could have underestimated the effectiveness of their scorched earth protocols.

[Scotty]

Except we learn during Universal Truth that MORPHEUS is about wiping out all Nagari sensitives. Considering that genocide encompasses destruction in part, yes; Morpheus is literally a plan to commit genocide.

I do not remember this at all.  Can you quote when?

[AdmiralRalwood]

This war is full of hidden purposes. The most secret element of the Alliance invasion strategy is Contingency Morpheus: their plan to purge Vishnan-compromised elements from human society. The Elders are their prime target.

Not quite "kill all Nagari-sensitives". Even if we take it to mean that (or even worse, killing everyone influenced by Ubuntu as "Vishnan-compromised"), that can't be the whole story, because we have GTVA assets in Laramis with MORPHEUS tasking.

[niffiwan]

Sure, but at that point they haven't gone through with it or done anything to make Nelson think they have genocidal intentions. I'm pretty sure he knew that the station wouldn't self-destruct before they're fully evacuated so he's basically throwing a lot of lives and 3 ships away to deny them that station(in his mind).
Does that really sound like a trade that's worth it, especially considering the GTVA are the ones with more ships in reserve and a better production lines? The UEF really can't afford to sacrifice even a single Karuna, even if it's to deny the Tevs a station that could be used as a staging point.

If the UEF really did plan to blow up the station along with the civilians who didn't make it out then what the hell is he doing sacrificing his life for them? Being captured by the GTVA sounds like a better fate than being blown to bits tbh.

If you assume them exploding is a certainty, then it makes sense to buy them evac time.  Potentially he could have underestimated the effectiveness of their scorched earth protocols.

I'm practically certain that Mence was, in the event of scorched earth protocols failing, obligated to destroy Artemis himself.  Here's lines taken from 'The Blade Itself' which has a similar situation between Simak Station and the Katana + Altan Orde.

AO: Ivan! If this is Case Kodiak, then we can't allow an Arcadia to fall into Tev hands. They'd be able to run a whole destroyer group off it.
K: Simak Station, we have declared Case Kodiak. You must self destruct in the event of a hostile boarding. I don't like it, but this is a military imperative.
S: Negative, Katana. I cannot obey that order until every man, woman and child has been evacuated.
K: God DAMN it. That glorious, stubborn, short-sighted jackass. He won't do it.
KT: We have another way. We can force the Tevs to detonate the bomb if we disrupt their boarding operation. Then we jump clear.
AO: Then we have to. Either we destroy the station with our guns - a long shot at best - or we find another way to deny it to the Tevs.
KT: I've designated Simak Station as a hostile target. One way or another, we have to destroy it. God help us all.

(I'm hoping that's mostly in order, it's a copy/paste from the messages section of the .fs2, I didn't check the events to ensure that this exact conversation tree could occur in game)

I view Mence's charge as deliberate suicide as he was unwilling to destroy Artemis station himself as his orders (under Case Kodiak) clearly stated that he had to do. He was unwilling to compromise his principles and chose the only path he felt was left open to him, death in battle defending the UEF (sure, he was taking ~8000 of his fellow officers and crew with him, maybe he felt that they'd feel the same way that he did)

[General Battuta]

Bump for new release!

[Commander Zane]

**** yes I'm getting this right the hell now.

[CKid]

Yup, whatever plans I had for the next 2 days just went out the window. Congrats on the release.

[TechnoD11]

Me Right Now:

[Azrael15]

Me Right Now:

this but with download bars

[TechnoD11]

BP is the only reason I have this internet

/s

[knossosfs2]

Congrats on the release I checked out the F3 techroom and found that I am having some weird rendering issues for all cockpits, where they look whitish/opaque, and that the overall framerate for the models is much lower (10-30) with the 3.73 nightly compared to 3.72 with the same model in the older BP (59-60). Just for the record, I didn't have the cockpit issue when I used 3.72 for the previous release; I used the 3.73 build for the old release and had the same issue with framerate drops and weird cockpits. I won't be able to post a debug log and screenshots for a while. Is anyone else having these issues?

On another note, I really like the new menu layout and the new music for WiH part 1. Can't wait to play it!

[General Battuta]

Oh, ****. Do these builds have shadows and deferred lighting? Turn those off if possible.

[CT27]

I know only the first two WIH acts have received voice acting, but Tenebra (Act 3) is supposed to be in the release package right?  I posted a link to the new download on another forum and someone said he/she couldn't find it.

[AdmiralRalwood]

Oh, ****. Do these builds have shadows and deferred lighting? Turn those off if possible.

Yes, Nightly builds since mid-May have the new renderer, and shadows and deferred lighting are enabled by default. So anybody having terrible FPS or graphical problems you didn't have with 3.7.2 Final, turn off shadows and (if that doesn't fix your issues by itself) deferred lighting and if you still have problems, please post your fs2_open.log file.  Instructions on how to do this can be found in this post.

I know only the first two WIH acts have received voice acting, but Tenebra (Act 3) is supposed to be in the release package right?  I posted a link to the new download on another forum and someone said he/she couldn't find it.

Make sure they know that Act 3's campaign is called "Blue Planet - War in Heaven 2"; lot of confusion about that when Act 3 was first released as well.

[General Battuta]

We need to update with a mod.ini or whatever that automatically disables deferred and shadows. They're way too expensive for our missions.